Trispark-warranty

rvich · Sep 12, 2013

Ya, yust von sheep and they don't call me Ole de boat builder no more.

Yeah, sure there are some that get fried from operator error. And I assumed that was the case too until it was my turn. As for " It's been pretty clear for awhile that Trisparks aren't particularly compatible with the stock coils." When did it become clear? We were trying to clear that up in July and it seemed to cause more confusion and consternation than determination. Again I offer this thread:

coils-have-shelf-life-ignition-curves-t16912.html?hilit=coils.

As for grounding the plugs to the head, that is the default operating position for a spark plug. It is operating the ignition without a grounded plug that voids the warranty.

Just clearing it up!

Russ

comnoz · Sep 12, 2013

So a coil with a set of points is really easy. The higher the primary resistance the longer the points are going to last because it will draw less currant.

Picking a coil to operate with an electronic ignition is a lot more involved than primary resistance.

Also figured into the design of the module is the turns ratio and the AC impedance [inductance].

The inductance has to match or the charging time will be too long and damage either the coil or the module. Or it will be too short and produce a weak spark.

If the turns ratio isn't right then either the spark will be weak or the kickback voltage will be too high and damage the module.

Designing a module that will work with more than one coil is going to be tough and will involve cutting corners and lowering efficiency. Some coils may easily produce more heat in the module and hasten it's failure even if the DC resistance is right. Jim

rvich · Sep 12, 2013

ah ha!

Burning candles at both ends is great so long as you have some wax left!

chasbmw · Sep 13, 2013

L.A.B. said:
Douglass Harroun said:

How is the advance curve on current model? Noticably slower than points?

Click to expand...

commando-timing-advance-curves-compiled-reva-t6488.html

rick in seattle said:

Click to expand...

The big V in the Boyer and the Trispark ignitions curves is the "tickover stabilization function". You can see how timing the Boyer at idle might be difficult to get an accurate reading

Nortiboy · Sep 13, 2013

comnoz said:
They are just going to have a higher failure rate. There is no way around that.

+1 Temp kills electronics. Life is reduced.

SteveA · Sep 13, 2013

Nortiboy said:
comnoz said:

They are just going to have a higher failure rate. There is no way around that.

Click to expand...

+1 Temp kills electronics. Life is reduced.

Vibration does a pretty good job too....

Putting everything inside the cover is good if you want to hide the fact that you are using electronic, like I might want to do in my 1956 MG or a bike of that age...

Analog Electronic Ignitions were common when Commandos left dealers in the '70s, in my opinion there is no need to hide it.

Is it a convenient location? maybe, but one rally car trick from years ago was to mount a whole fresh set of ignition under the hood so that just swapping wires got you running after a failure, or even just suspect running.....you can't do that with something that is mounted in the points cover.

mike996 · Sep 13, 2013

"Analog Electronic Ignitions were common when Commandos left dealers in the '70s"

The first US carmaker to use electronic ignitions rather than points across the line was Chrysler and that started in '73. Electronic ignitions weren't "standard," at least on US cars until about the time that Norton was out of business - 1975. All of us Mopar muscle car guys switched from points to e-ignition when they became available for retrofit through what was then known as Mopar's Direct Connection program. The Direct Connection e-systems were oriented toward competition use as opposed to the street system that came on the cars from '73 on so there was a different advance curve as well as other changes.

Then, as now, electronic ignitions didn't make any more power but they required no maintenance which meant that engines didn't slowly lose power over time as the timing changed due to point wear.

xbacksideslider · Sep 13, 2013

How does that "tickover stabilization" work? What's the theory?

mike996 · Sep 13, 2013

Yes, it would be interesting to know what that is. I assume it is just some automatic retard of some sort around the idle speed range which will tend to smooth out the idle. It's hard to imagine it is any more than that since there are no sensors to tell the ignition anything except the engine's RPM. It can't know anything else - load, manifold vacuum, fuel/air mixture, etc.

pete.v · Sep 13, 2013

I believe idle stabilisation works by the unit sensing rpms 100, 200 maybe 1000 times per second and advancing or retarding to maintain stability.

chasbmw · Sep 14, 2013

the ignition timing is varied by the big V in the ignition curve at around idle revs

kommando · Sep 14, 2013

the ignition timing is varied by the big V in the ignition curve at around idle revs

Correct, as the revs drop they hit the left side of the V and the ignition advances which increases the revs back to the middle of the V.

rvich · Sep 14, 2013

comnoz said:
If the turns ratio isn't right then either the spark will be weak or the kickback voltage will be too high and damage the module.

I suspect one of the reasons I loved my Tri-Spark so much is because the spark was really hot!

comnoz · Sep 14, 2013

rvich said:
comnoz said:

If the turns ratio isn't right then either the spark will be weak or the kickback voltage will be too high and damage the module.

Click to expand...

I suspect one of the reasons I loved my Tri-Spark so much is because the spark was really hot!

Actually the spark from the tri-spark is normally pretty average. If yours seemed really hot then that may be why it was short lived. That would be caused by coils that were not a good match. Jim

ranmar850 · Sep 15, 2013

However that idle stabilisation does it, it works. Worked Ok with stock coils, replaced with the CNW single coil, still works well. Never been so easy to get the idle dead stable and reliable, with twin 932's. i'm the bloke who just sits at the lights, letting it idle, until it turns green and time to go. I believe the original application was for Triumph/BSA triples--three sets of points were bastards, Boyers never worked very well. Seems to solve that common centre-plug fouling issue that can bedevil them. Hence-Tri-Spark :wink:

kommando · Sep 15, 2013

A Trident Trispark fires the 3 cylinders in sequence with no wasted spark, this is a big advantage over the Boyer which fires all 3 each time. The current twin cylinder Trispark fires a wasted spark just like the Boyer eg both cylinders, so much less of an advantage, if you want the auto idle stabilisation you can go Boyer or Pazon digital.

Snorton74 · Sep 15, 2013

" i'm the bloke who just sits at the lights, letting it idle, until it turns green and time to go."

Nice

Myford · Sep 18, 2013

Suddenly I have ignition problems. I replaced one of the stock coils about 50 or 60 miles ago, haven't used the bike for 2 or 3 weeks and tonight I wheeled it out and it wouldn't start. In between my gasps for breath I did get it to fire up for half a second occationally. This is usually a first or second kick bike. with the plugs out and kicking it over I'm getting a very weak spark and the dreaded flashing red light on the tri spark if I kick for long enough.
I wasn't aware of any issues with stock coils till I read this thread. I'm going to put the old coil back on tomorrow. I'm also going to be pretty hacked off if it's killed the unit.
Don't mean to hijack this thread, it seems relevent

Terry

1up3down · Sep 18, 2013

I'm getting a very weak spark and the dreaded flashing red light on the tri spark if I kick for long enough.

dreaded red light?

I thought when the red light lit up it was because it was sending the signal to the coil to fire the plugs,
a good thing, and it should be lighting up where you set the timing around 28 degrees?

Myford · Sep 18, 2013

a continual fast flashing red light when the engine is stationary, as I understand it is an overload warning, possibly indicating a coil issue?
Terry

Trispark-warranty

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