No Spark on Boyer - Fixed

swooshdave · Aug 25, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

hobot said:
Are you getting enough speed in your kicks? You need about 200 rpm to start. The Commando takes a very firm kick all the way through

Click to expand...

hehe> hoho> LOL!

I sure hope I'm getting enough RPM on the kick. I think I've had enough practice. :evil:

bpatton · Aug 25, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

Dave, This sounds crazy but you might want to try it out. Take the box off the bike and set it on a chair or bench away from the bike. Jumper the power and ground. Also either remove the pickup leads from the bike or run a temp away from the bike. I had the same thing happen with a MkIII analog Boyer 15 years ago. It started right up when I moved the box and pickup leads. It was explained to me that the signals from the pickups are very weak and the wires can pick up emi from the coils. It was also posited that there could be 'alternator noise' going on. At any rate, I got some Belden 8441 cable that is two wire, shielded with a ground, with a plastic jacket. No more problem. I don't rule out the possibility that just rewiring the pickups could have fixed it. :roll:

grandpaul · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

Dave, you are experiencing the typical symptoms of faulty pickup coil connections. VERY typical of boyer stators.

DITCH THE BLOODY THING, and replace it for God's sake, man.

JimC · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

grandpaul said:
Dave, you are experiencing the typical symptoms of faulty pickup coil connections. VERY typical of boyer stators.

DITCH THE BLOODY THING, and replace it for God's sake, man.

I agree with Paul.

Dave, unless you have done the stator pickup coil mod, you WILL have a problem with the Boyer. If not now, eventually. There are just too many better choices available than the Boyer. Going from points to a Boyer is a step backwards, IMO.

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

bpatton said:
Dave, This sounds crazy but you might want to try it out. Take the box off the bike and set it on a chair or bench away from the bike. Jumper the power and ground. Also either remove the pickup leads from the bike or run a temp away from the bike. I had the same thing happen with a MkIII analog Boyer 15 years ago. It started right up when I moved the box and pickup leads. It was explained to me that the signals from the pickups are very weak and the wires can pick up emi from the coils. It was also posited that there could be 'alternator noise' going on. At any rate, I got some Belden 8441 cable that is two wire, shielded with a ground, with a plastic jacket. No more problem. I don't rule out the possibility that just rewiring the pickups could have fixed it. :roll:

The alternator is disconnected while I'm testing so hopefully that is helping with the noise. But there could very well be something with the way I wired it that is causing a problem.

<edit> Normally with two coils the Boyer pickup wires would run with some good spacing from the coils. With the single coil the pickup wires run really close to the coil. But along this line of thought, if it was the pickup wires then theoretically it wouldn't fire when you touch the two pickup wires together. Maybe the signal from the stator coils are less than if you just touch the wires together...

I got a response back from Boyer (thanks to the hint from the first page) very quickly, unfortunately they didn't offerer any advice other than keep checking the stator wires. I'll try again to see if I get get them to fault but so far I haven't. As there is 0 miles on this Boyer I can fathom how they could have broke yet. I was planning on doing the stator mod last night be it was just too hot in the garage. It's cooled off considerably here so I will be able to take another crack at it soon.

Also, I can't remember if I mentioned it, but I have another unused Triumph Boyer. It has to be 15 years old and never out of the box. Boyer said I could just use that. I can switch out the components to test.

Paul, I'm just too stubborn to let the Boyer win. :mrgreen:

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

ludwig said:
swooshdave said:

.. I'm just too stubborn to let the Boyer win. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Thàt's the spirit !
There may be better sytems , but thousands of Boyers have been sparking happily for many years .
No reason why yours shouldn't ..

Apparently there is a reason. I just haven't found it. :mrgreen:

grandpaul · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

swooshdave said:
Apparently there is a reason. I just haven't found it.

If I had a spare Sparx unit on the shelf, I'd happily send it to you FREE to prove my point. Sorry I don't have one on hand at the moment.

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

grandpaul said:
swooshdave said:

Apparently there is a reason. I just haven't found it.

Click to expand...

If I had a spare Sparx unit on the shelf, I'd happily send it to you FREE to prove my point. Sorry I don't have one on hand at the moment.

You have to admit that it's a bit of a puzzle as to why the Boyer won't fire. As was pointed out they have been used for many years successfully but this seems a little unusual, as most of the issues have been sussed out. I'd like to find out why this one won't.

DogT · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

That's why I'm starting off with the AAU.

Dave
69S

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

DogT said:
That's why I'm starting off with the AAU.

Dave
69S

Start stone age and work you're way up...

Finding an AAU in decent shape is not easy. Those big motors shook the crap out of them. I'd say you're even more a masochist than me. :mrgreen:

DogT · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

It worked just fine the last time it was running and it ran fine for 13,000 miles. It may be a dinosaur, but it works and is not subject to the vagaries of the battery. It ran for years and years with no battery, just the capacitor and would start in 2 kicks, not like your video. Sorry, I had to say that. I may be eating my words when I try starting mine, but I have a big hill too.

But then I have my original point setup.

Dave
69S

davamb · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

Sorry to be a pain, but are you absolutely sure the battery's fully charged Dave? Sounds just like the trouble I had on a dead flat battery the other day.

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

DogT said:
It worked just fine the last time it was running and it ran fine for 13,000 miles. It may be a dinosaur, but it works and is not subject to the vagaries of the battery. It ran for years and years with no battery, just the capacitor and would start in 2 kicks, not like your video. Sorry, I had to say that. I may be eating my words when I try starting mine, but I have a big hill too.

But then I have my original point setup.

Dave
69S

I'm looking forward to the video. :mrgreen:

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

davamb said:
Sorry to be a pain, but are you absolutely sure the battery's fully charged Dave? Sounds just like the trouble I had on a dead flat battery the other day.

Brand new AGM battery showing 12.9v and about that at the coil. I need to check it for load, but I suspect it will be fine.

rx7171 · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

Since Nortons use a positive ground and you are changing your system to a negative ground I'm wondering in flipping the system something is being missed, since when we talk about Boyers being used for years successfully we're really talking about in positive ground Norton system.

Bob

swooshdave · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

rx7171 said:
Since Nortons use a positive ground and you are changing your system to a negative ground I'm wondering in flipping the system something is being missed, since when we talk about Boyers being used for years successfully we're really talking about in positive ground Norton system.

Bob

Since Boyers work just as well despite the grounding system and the bike has ran, I'd say I've probably got that part ok. If there were wires crossed up I wouldn't expect it to have ran at all.

Jeandr · Aug 26, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

rx7171 said:
Since Nortons use a positive ground and you are changing your system to a negative ground I'm wondering in flipping the system something is being missed, since when we talk about Boyers being used for years successfully we're really talking about in positive ground Norton system.

Bob

My Commando has a negative ground, all the bikes I wire up are negative ground and Boyer, Pazon, Sachse and Ignitech are all happy with it.

Swoosh, why not put a meter on the output lead of the boyer (that is the lead that goes to the coil) and take a reading...

When switched on, what is the reading
Without touching anything, wait a minute, what is the reading
Take off the plugs (just to make it easy), kick with vigor and take a reading

Jean

not-ron · Aug 27, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

For heavens sake mate find the fault the suspense is killing me.....If it's something stupid you will tell us won't you :roll:

swooshdave · Aug 27, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

not-ron said:
For heavens sake mate find the fault the suspense is killing me.....If it's something stupid you will tell us won't you :roll:

Sorry, I don't get a chance to work on it much during the week. I did take today off so I should be able to get out to the garage this afternoon.

As for showing you stupid stuff I've done have you not watched the damn video? :roll:

:mrgreen:

kraakevik · Aug 27, 2010

Re: No Spark on Boyer

Dave

I've got similar troubles with a negative-ground Boyer on my 850 Commando--if you give me your e-mail address I'll forward my exchanges with the Boyer boffins to date.

Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net
Three Commandos