No Spark on Boyer - Fixed

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Re: No Spark on Boyer

ludwig said:
.. 100 replies ..still no sparks ..
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I think half of you think I'm just some attention whore. And that I have all the time in the world. Most of my time posting is also spent minding the kid and not idle time that I should be working on the bike.

All I hope for is that this gets resolved and more importantly, if there is a solution it can help someone else down the road.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

In the positive-ground setup the only active or hot wire to the coils is the black Boyer wire.

In the negative-ground setup the red wire and the hot 12V wire are co-terminated on the positive side of one coil--the black Boyer wire is on the negative terminal of the other coil.

On my negative-ground 850 the red- and hot-wired coil never drops below 6V, while the coil with the black wire switches between 0-12V when kicked through. The field never collapses on the hot coil no matter what substitutions are made of Boyer box, coils, rotors, stators, jumpers or ground wires. That is the problem with my Commando, and perhaps Dave's as well.


Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net
Three Commandos
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

swooshdave said:
Most of my time posting is also spent minding the kid and not idle time that I should be working on the bike.
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"Daddy, let's play Barbie!".

"Hold on! I'm reading something on the Norton Forum."

....well, at least that's how it is at my house. :D
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Anglophile said:
swooshdave said:
Most of my time posting is also spent minding the kid and not idle time that I should be working on the bike.
Click to expand...

"Daddy, let's play Barbie!".

"Hold on! I'm reading something on the Norton Forum."

....well, at least that's how it is at my house. :D
Click to expand...

Ah, jeez. That is verbatim!
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Late word on Virginia's positive-ground Boyer problem....

Tracing through the Boyer itself, the coils/switch/timing-plate pickup functions & circuitry over the last two weeks/7 pages has made me a lot smarter than ever before about what used to be magic and [he says] "Black Box" problem.

All the recommended ignition circuit continuity, power points, coil resistance/direct-drive checks, timing plate resistance, wire wiggling, etc, etc, left but one thing...., and the 1/2 second spark "dump" after switch-ON actually pointed to it.

It was the box.

.

.

:|


Dave, where are you located and I'll spot you a new (negative-ground) box.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Get bact to basics, Dave. All this for LED turn signals and er ah reliability? LED'S aren't all they're cracked up to be. And all them thar relays can be can be concidered simply as another source for fault. Every extra crimp and connection needs to e checked and validated, especially after initial start up and ssshhhaaakkkeee up.

This type of norton doesn't seem to scream LED or anything else extra.

I thing you need and want this to run first and formost and add any blingy crap later. I am not saying you got it wrong, but you really need to rethink your wiring.

I suggest isolating your wiring to charging and ignition systems.

This is a ground up build. You should expect many "2 steps back, 1 step forward" situations. Be patient, hug the kid.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

pvisseriii said:
Be patient, hug the kid.
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The irony is that I'm the one being patient, it'll all ya'll that are chomping at the bit. :mrgreen:
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmZCwWqrz8A[/video]

You guys know what this means... a new KILL SWITCH THREAD!!!!! Har, har, har, har... cough, cough... har!!!!

Paul, you'd just better go ahead and turn off your internet now.

:mrgreen:




Now I have to go back through the wiring harness. Oh, joy. :(




But it means a new thread. :mrgreen:
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Dave I thought I read that you have already run a hot straight to the Boyer? And also grounds? If that's the case it must be the box or Pickup. Were the wires direct to the unit? If so I think we know whats wrong. Also have you checked the voltage with a load on the battery? :wink:
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

swooshdave said:
... And that I have all the time in the world. Most of my time posting is also spent minding the kid and not idle time that I should be working on the bike...
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Join the club.

At least she FINALLY started full-day "Pre-K" last week, so my shop time availability is greatly increased.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Hortons Norton said:
Dave I thought I read that you have already run a hot straight to the Boyer? And also grounds? If that's the case it must be the box or Pickup. Were the wires direct to the unit? If so I think we know whats wrong. Also have you checked the voltage with a load on the battery? :wink:
Click to expand...

I did run the hot to the Boyer... but I'm now suspecting (and hopefully Paul's head won't explode...) it was actually the GROUND to the Boyer that may have been bad. :oops:

:mrgreen:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6_8ia-2LZ8[/video]

I was having problems with it not running for more than 10 secs, then I re-cleaned out the pilot jets and she fired right up. Now I have one of the banjoes leaking so I need to take care of that before doing anything else.

Oh, and the killswitch shot at the end... yes, that's for Paul. :mrgreen:

Starts in about two kicks so messing with the carbs and timing should get it going just fine. The good news is that there is now an exhaustive collection of troubleshooting ideas for the Boyer in this thread. One can only hope it can help someone in the future.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Where, how many and what type of fire extinguishers do you have on hand?
You only listed pilot jet as attended too, only hinting you Thought Ground was the electric issue. Are you avoiding the conclusion that the electrical no spark issue turned out to be fuel flow? Did you or did you not find a simple bad connection in Boyer supply?

Off to use riding mower Norton knowledge allowed me to re-build and a pull behind gang mower I had no spark on even after me going through all its connections, finally carried to old man who works on em, to tell me it was just a wire off the key switch. Ugh. Dragging mower in-out PU bed pulled a tire bead open that took two days belt strapping and adhesive spray to finally reseal. Ugh. I guess I knocked it loose checking other stuff before closing up and giving up, just like my Combats.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Most of the time another set of fresh eyes works wonders (even if they are old). When troubleshooting sometimes it is best to just step away for a day or two and when you come back you can immediately see the problem. I see this all the time at work doing engineering which is basically the same as what we all do as Norton owners.

Russ
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

Now you will have to change the title :mrgreen: And bravo for finding the problem caused by ... er never mind :wink:

Jean

I will post some oscilloscope pictures of the waveform later on just for reference.

Swoosh, can you take the measurements I asked for, again just for reference.
 
Re: No Spark on Boyer

hobot said:
Where, how many and what type of fire extinguishers do you have on hand?
You only listed pilot jet as attended too, only hinting you Thought Ground was the electric issue. Are you avoiding the conclusion that the electrical no spark issue turned out to be fuel flow? Did you or did you not find a simple bad connection in Boyer supply?
Click to expand...

I highly suspect the Ground wire (white) from the Boyer which connects to a black wire to the head had a bad connection. This was not discovered until I finally ran a wire directly from the battery to the Boyer. I had assumed that the Ground was fine as it looked ok and there was no way I could see to test the ground through the Boyer.

Carb problems were not related. When I finally got spark it wouldn't run but for a few seconds due to clogged pilot jets, I cleared them and it runs fine.

I'll need to attend to the pilot jets with a more elegant solution in a while.
 
Do I have this right......Eight days and eight pages of replies of Boyer trouble shooting for a clogged pilot jet?
Alls well that end well!
Who is in charge of cutting the umbilical cord? :p :p :p
So, anyway, when is the first road test?
 
pvisseriii said:
Do I have this right......Eight days and eight pages of replies of Boyer trouble shooting for a clogged pilot jet?
Alls well that end well!
Who is in charge of cutting the umbilical cord? :p :p :p
So, anyway, when is the first road test?
Click to expand...

No, the pilot jet wasn't the cause of no spark, do you guys know nothing? Pilot jet was the reason it took me an extra hour to get it to start and idle. Sheesh.

"Road test" in a couple minutes. Different thread, you guys are too anal about "too many pages" and all that crap. :mrgreen:
 
If there is any chance you might encounter some Gravel, please a fix video to keep the entertainment going.
 
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