Lithium Battery Mounted: JB Rubber

Hungry J0e · Aug 12, 2011

So I got my Shorai lithium battery mounted:

Mounts under the hump very nicely.

Next problem is curing my gas cap leak... sealed the inside of the fill neck with JB Weld and let it cure for five days. Put gas in it last night and today the JB Weld is peeling already... grrr...

Cheers,

- HJ

ashman · Aug 12, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Hi

Over here in Aussie land we have a product that I use its called Fropite or something like that, it is used to join cast iron sewer pipes together, I use it to repair fuel tank leaks as well as metal filler, its a 2 part mix and you can rub water over it to smooth it out, it will even dry with fuel leaking on it, my dad put me on to this well over 30 years ago you should be able to get it from any pluming hardware store they should know what it is, the 2 tin mix will last many years as you don't need to mix much.

Ashley

Combat Col · Aug 12, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Yeah, It's called Ferropre. But it's not pronounced how it's spelt. Available from plumbers supplies. Great stuff ... Good thinking Ash.

Hobot · Aug 13, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Oh man JBWeld letting go ugh. Maybe it just peeled a rust layer off with it. Once set gasoline should not bother it, even with alcohol. If acetone or gas was present in vapors or metal pores during set up might do this too. I use wet finger to smooth it as so tough, metal like to work later. May have to resort to cutting a port or whole bottom off to directly access the area. Put a blob of JBW on a similar material prepped as tank, let set up then put in jar of gas and see what happens, if nothing, must rethink, examine and prep the repair site or nothing may work the easy way. If lets go i sure would be upset with you.

Hobot · Aug 13, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Wes and I used very heavy layer of Caswells 2 part epoxy tank sealer with later formula claimed to correct early formula ethanol failures. There are a couple other I don't know the chemistry that are reported here to work so far. Its strong enough to practically build a whole tank out of it, so I'd be sorely tempted to chip out what JBW I could and bury the remainder in Caswell's or the others.

Hungry J0e · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Was away for the weekend and checked on things today.

The JB Weld had bunched up and peeled off easily on the outlying areas where it was pretty thin. It is still hard and appears stable on the thicker areas where I think the leaks are. We'll see how it holds up and if the neck is still leaking at the next fill up!

Cheers,

- HJ

Foxy · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

G'day hungryjoe, those Lithium batteries are a great power source in the right application. With special battery chargers required for phone, cordless drills cameras etc etc, me personaly still not convinced this is the right way to go even with the newer type regulators for our bikes available and question are they up to the job? I dont know enough about electronics, but I have been told special chargers for these special batteries? Will be watching with great interest to see how your set up performs.

The ferropre product mentioned is good stuff and I believe its pronounced like therapy except with an "F". Im also amazed to think JB didnt stick. I smeared some left over on an exhaust some 12 months back and its still there after going through heaps of heat cycles. On the tank application, wondering what the prep was like?

Hungry J0e · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Foxy said:
The ferropre product mentioned is good stuff and I believe its pronounced like therapy except with an "F". Im also amazed to think JB didnt stick. I smeared some left over on an exhaust some 12 months back and its still there after going through heaps of heat cycles. On the tank application, wondering what the prep was like?

I sanded the area with 200 grit sandpaper to allow the JB Weld to stick. I then cleaned it with acetone (per the website instructions). Put a thick layer on the filler neck and thinner layer inside the tank and right by the cap.

The thicker area on the filler neck is still solid. The other areas peeled off pretty quick. I did notice when I cleaned up the leftover JB Weld the next day that it was still flexible and not brittle hard like I thought it should be, which is why I gave the tank a few extra days to cure. Maybe I had a bad batch off the stuff? I thoroughly mixed the two parts prior to application...

Cheers,

- HJ

Flo · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Best to just try it. I have found that epoxy doesn't stick very well to aluminium. My first thoughts would have been PTFE tape.

DogT · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

I shouldn't get into this discussion, but my understanding is that the AGM batteries are the most likely to hold up to vibration and hard service. Li and Ni tend to be not so forgiving with stress. Of course the Pb batteries work too, but you have to worry about that acid. You pays your money, you takes your chance.

Dave
69S

Hungry J0e · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

DogT said:
I shouldn't get into this discussion, but my understanding is that the AGM batteries are the most likely to hold up to vibration and hard service. Li and Ni tend to be not so forgiving with stress. Of course the Pb batteries work too, but you have to worry about that acid. You pays your money, you takes your chance.

Dave
69S

AGM batteries were not holding up well above the engine cradle (6 months service life). I think the heat and vibration were killing them.

Under the seat should be better from both perspectives. We'll see if they can handle the Norton charging system.

Cheers,

- HJ

Hungry J0e · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Flo said:
Best to just try it. I have found that epoxy doesn't stick very well to aluminium. My first thoughts would have been PTFE tape.

It's the inside of the fill neck... ain't nothing to stick the tape between...

DogT · Aug 14, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

The AGM were developed for high vibration usage in helicopters, however they do not stand up to high charge rates. Typically they have a very long life, I had a Panasonic AGM in my Miata for over 10 years, it was still holding good voltage (12.4), but just didn't have the capacity on cold days. The Optima has a spiral wound cell configuration for warm weather, vibration resistant, helicopters and fighter aircraft. But again, they do not hold up to overcharging, if you can regulate the charge voltage to 13.8 instead of the usual 14.5 or so, they will probably last a lot longer. The zener in my 69 seems to hold at about 13.8 and I'm using a Yuasa 8AH AGM in mine mainly because I like to use the running lights during the day and I don't want acid spilling around. Only got one season on it so far.

The NiCad and Gel cells will not hold up to vibration very well at all.

Dave
69S

Rich_j · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Charge rates need to be carefully controlled on lithium batteries. Sticking them on a constant voltage isn't good enough.

Do a search on lithium battery fires see what you get!

bwolfie · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

In the early days of lipo batteris in RC stuff, fires were common place. The latest breeds of batteries have been designed to withstand conciderable abuse without catching on fire. I have had several packs "puff up" on me. This condition if not treated will lead to a fire. It looks like the packs for motorcycles are designed with built in voltage regulation for the cells. Slam 12 volts to the pack and the circuitry handles cell balancing and charging. Besides most of the packs use the A123 cells, LiFe, Lithium Iron Phosphate that are a different chemistry than lipo Lithium Ion Polymer. LiFe cells are used in cordless power tools, and we all know what abuse they take.

grandpaul · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Joe, did you use regular JB Weld, or thier specific gas tank patch product?

Hobot · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Wes has a tiny HyRyder tank with thick Caswell layer and a half dozen years after wards regular JBW patch of pencil size leak in tunnel I caused by a grabby drum brake on parking lot Grit. I asked him yesterday if he had run much ethanol gas, and he rolled his eyes, yes as he can hardly pass up a station with less than 2 gallon tank capacity, less that factory d/t the almost pint worth of sealer inside. Do not blame JBW for a failure, blame the surface prep'er. If I could make JBW flow enough to coat a tank that'd be my 1st choice over exiting coatings. Acetone would do it but would also do in fiber resin many are trying to protect.

Hungry J0e · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

grandpaul said:
Joe, did you use regular JB Weld, or thier specific gas tank patch product?

No just the regular stuff.

Again, it was just the thin areas that sort of bubbled and peeled off. I'm not sure I needed it there. The thick area in the fill neck appears solid. I might be good, we'll see...

My tubes of JB Weld were opened about 6 months ago and it is very humid here... maybe I should have used fresh tubes...

Hungry J0e · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

hobot said:
Wes has a tiny HyRyder tank with thick Caswell layer and a half dozen years after wards regular JBW patch of pencil size leak in tunnel I caused by a grabby drum brake on parking lot Grit. I asked him yesterday if he had run much ethanol gas, and he rolled his eyes, yes as he can hardly pass up a station with less than 2 gallon tank capacity, less that factory d/t the almost pint worth of sealer inside. Do not blame JBW for a failure, blame the surface prep'er. If I could make JBW flow enough to coat a tank that'd be my 1st choice over exiting coatings. Acetone would do it but would also do in fiber resin many are trying to protect.

Your magnetic trick was pretty neat... I used that to make sure the JB Weld flowed into the holes on the side of the fill neck...

Hobot · Aug 15, 2011

Re: Lithium Battery Mounted

Oh cool finally helped someone. Magnetic JBW has solved a few otherwise impossible internal sealing issues for me and gluing supports on frame to hold JBW up against a part against the sag off it by gravity, even if damming and mask would of kept the JBW from dripping down out of the seam. JBW is a booger to get off nice nickle plated magnets, ugh.

The more I think about this back seat battery location the more it may be my only neat solution to Ms Peel clear view of scenery through her profile. I was a bit pensive to put mass up hi and rear on Peel but Li just don't weight that much, cool. I see this mount location on many modifed cycles, and even brand specific kits to fit them there, like cafe'd BMW's at vintage meets. Your install is neatest minimalist of the bunch, so deserve to grin inside on it much as you like.

Lithium Battery Mounted: JB Rubber

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