why light wheels make your bike turn easier

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I gave up riding on public roads at age 27, and went road racing where there is no traffic, and no police. Back then I had become aware that my days were numbered if I continued to speed. You can have fun on a race circuit with your normal road bike as long as you have no ego. Even if you've got the best race bike in the world, ego is dangerous. I live in a small country town in NE Victoria. The roads around here are long and straight for the first 60 KM, then you might find some twisty stuff to excite you a bit. Droning up long boring roads, is not my idea of having fun. When you race, you have other idiots to have a go at. I'm probably strange however I envy those pilots of spitfires and messerschmidts who flew in the battle of Britain. Unfortunately our scrutineers require all machine guns to be removed from road race bikes. They've even tried banning the on-board movie cameras which are used to collect evidence of victory.
 
Snorton74 said:
Cornering for people not on the Viagra racing team...

why light wheels make your bike turn easier
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Where did that pic come from? The windbags at the Dept of Motor Vehicles? or perhaps it is the handbook of the Mr. Magoo school of motorcycle driving?

Of course you slow down before the turn. Of course crashes come from going in too fast.

That author is writing to be politically correct (the go slow, never take a chance, live life safely, school of group think), or . . . . is writing from plain ignorance and inexperience.

Reminds me of the first California DMV handbook for motorcycles that I was forced to read to pass their stupid test, circa 1970; it said something like "prefer the rear brake, avoid using the front brake because if you do then you are more likely to crash." It was written by "we know better" know nothing safteycrats.
 
Was pulled right from the training manual. But what do they know? Sometimes a reminder of the basics can be a good thing, even if an expert like yourself has it all figured out.

P.S. Mr Magoo riding reference getting played out. Time for some new material, lol.
 
Ok yoose guys turned a life/death joy thread into a spoofing session so how this for so light a wheel they float!
That pamphlet instructions reads like Holly Scriptures to me and burned at stake to break its rules going fast.

why light wheels make your bike turn easier
 
I can go for 30-50 mile rides around here with absolutely no traffic, not even center lines on the roads, but there are spots where I have to get on the interstates to connect the dots. Not on the weekends though. I had such a ride last Monday, the mountains aren't as large here, but probably as old.

why light wheels make your bike turn easier


Dave
69S
 
ludwig said:
Al-otment said:
. If I thought it was genuine I may have considered attending. After looking at the AlpineRoads web site I really don't think so. Riding around with a bunch of 50 motorcycles on 50mph limit roads and stopping in hotels is not my idea of fun. Swiss speeding fines for 10mph over equate to approx. £160! You lot are either very rich or enjoy riding slow..
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The invitation is genuine .
We ride in groups of maximum 5 or 6 likeminded riders ( some slow , some fast ..)
We meet in one hotel for 3 days , each year a different country .
Before and after each one goes his own way , except the Finns , who tour together .
Swiss speed limit is 90 kmh , and within that limit , you can ride VERY fast .
Average moving speed in the mountains is rarely more than 50 km/h .
The guy in this movie never exceeds the speed limit :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgMeuExgx24

If you think you can do better , why don't you take up the invitation ?
( I' ll buy you a beer ..)
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90kmh in English is approx 55mph. 50kmh is approx 30mph. Very nice roads but very slow in between bends. Thanks for the offer, but main trip next year is Finland for the Britti Ralli, travelling through Denmark and Sweden. Possibly take in Norway too. I was in east Austria earlier this year, when all the flooding was happening, and had planned to travel through Austria to Dijon, France, but reports of flooded roads meant a detour back into south Germany and then toward Freiburg etc. Should be heading that way again though in 2015, rumours of a Norton rally in Italy. If not, I'll check the AlpineRoads website....you never know.

If you don't know, or haven't been, there are many places on the Isle of Man where there are no speed limits. But be careful!
 
DogT said:
I can go for 30-50 mile rides around here with absolutely no traffic, not even center lines on the roads, but there are spots where I have to get on the interstates to connect the dots. Not on the weekends though. I had such a ride last Monday, the mountains aren't as large here, but probably as old.

why light wheels make your bike turn easier


Dave
69S
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Great pic DogT/Dave. Just great.
 
Snorton74 said:
Was pulled right from the training manual. But what do they know? Sometimes a reminder of the basics can be a good thing, even if an expert like yourself has it all figured out.

P.S. Mr Magoo riding reference getting played out. Time for some new material, lol.
Click to expand...



Mr Magoo . . . . . yeah, the truth hurts.

Training manual . . . . . What do they know?
Typical bureaucrats - know nothings with power.
Did they consult any racers?
Horrors! You know the answer.
Biased safetycrats.

Picture hundreds of Mr. Magoos - all trying to ride two wheeled desks - crashing into each other.

Their idea of corner entry applies to what? Rear brake biased Harleys? Bikes with square front tires? Inept riders?
More likely - a re-write of what some insurance company hack lobbyist "suggested" they write?

I make no claim to having it "all figured out;" the more I learn about riding, the more I know what I don't know.
I make no claim to anything other than experience, something the authors of that manual patently lack.
 
Dear xbackslider we have video of you over doing a turn on a Cdo and to save it you straightened upright and got both wheels in line to be able to actually slow up on time not to run off the other side of hwy, then gased it out of there a bit wiser for the conditions. You innately knew to slow up enough while leaned at that speed was bad juju. Oh its happened to me too but not in a long while as too scary and too luck dependent no traffic there just then.

Brief m/c wheel developments
http://classicmotorcycles.about.com/od/ ... Wheels.htm

Some technicals on 'our' wheels vs all others, none which applies to our sizes.
http://www.blackstonetek.com/inertia.html

on the other hand in line with too light = too twitchy
If the review was based on this section alone we would say the BST carbon fiber wheels make a huge difference but as we dig deeper into the data there are a few areas that they didn’t hold such a clear advantage. On the ultra-fast back straight that starts on the exit of Turn 6 and continues through Turn 7 and Turn 8 the OEM and BST wheels were neck and neck. The limiting factor for the BST wheels here was a more flighty, somewhat less stable feeling from the front end as we rocked through this sequence at 115 mph while dragging your leg if you’re so inclined to hang off that far. It would take a bit of time to dial in the fork to offset the reduced un-sprung weight of the carbon fiber wheels but we did not have the time to make that happen. As it was, the split times revealed the OEM wheels averaged a 0.25 second advantage through a section that takes 21-22 seconds to navigate. This is a section that puts a premium on the rider’s ability to get a good drive out of Turn 6 so any lapped traffic could skew the results of a lap time, but remember that is why we ran this data as an average and not base it on a single fast lap. Although it is a small gain, the noticeable stability of the bike and OEM wheels during extended high-speed maneuvering just cannot go unmentioned.
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more here http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/543/8622/ ... eview.aspx
 
xbacksideslider said:
Snorton74 said:
Was pulled right from the training manual. But what do they know? Sometimes a reminder of the basics can be a good thing, even if an expert like yourself has it all figured out.

P.S. Mr Magoo riding reference getting played out. Time for some new material, lol.
Click to expand...



Mr Magoo . . . . . yeah, the truth hurts.

Training manual . . . . . What do they know?
Typical bureaucrats - know nothings with power.
Did they consult any racers?
Horrors! You know the answer.
Biased safetycrats.

Picture hundreds of Mr. Magoos - all trying to ride two wheeled desks - crashing into each other.

Their idea of corner entry applies to what? Rear brake biased Harleys? Bikes with square front tires? Inept riders?
More likely - a re-write of what some insurance company hack lobbyist "suggested" they write?

I make no claim to having it "all figured out;" the more I learn about riding, the more I know what I don't know.
I make no claim to anything other than experience, something the authors of that manual patently lack.
Click to expand...

xbackslider,

Suggest you Google 'Motorcycle Race Track Tips' and you should find Kevin Schwantz (alias Mr Magoo) Suzuki School. 32 tips on racing technique. Advocates what's in the Mr Magoo training manual for inept riders with square tyres riding two wheeled desks I think. But what does he know?
 
Al-otment said:
xbackslider,

Suggest you Google 'Motorcycle Race Track Tips' and you should find Kevin Schwantz (alias Mr Magoo) Suzuki School. 32 tips on racing technique. Advocates what's in the Mr Magoo training manual for inept riders with square tyres riding two wheeled desks I think. But what does he know?
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Well, Al, here are the 32 tips, and they all make sense for beginners or track dayers who may have got into bad habits. I participate in track day training at my local circuit, and these would resonate with us.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto ... rack_tips/

…and notice these:
23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).

In other words, they are introducing you to trail braking…and if we ride alpine switchbacks, we need to trail brake, especially downhill, otherwise we will be out of control (said before by Ludwig).

I don't see a conflict between what xback said and the above tips. I've watched him ride on video and he can ride fast and stay in control (and he knows that road well).

None of us can afford to lay the law down on what is the one and only way to ride a bike but we can say what works from our experiences.
 
daveh said:
snd notice these:
23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).
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Trail breaking (aka feather braking).

Uh oh! Sounds like 15 minutes till judge Judy.
 
xbacksideslider said:
DogT said:
I can go for 30-50 mile rides around here with absolutely no traffic, not even center lines on the roads, but there are spots where I have to get on the interstates to connect the dots. Not on the weekends though. I had such a ride last Monday, the mountains aren't as large here, but probably as old.

why light wheels make your bike turn easier


Dave
69S
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Great pic DogT/Dave. Just great.
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+1

My guess is Blue Ridge Parkway.

Riding a Norton Commando there is one for the bucket list.
 
daveh said:
Well, Al, here are the 32 tips, and they all make sense for beginners or track dayers who may have got into bad habits. I participate in track day training at my local circuit, and these would resonate with us.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0608_kevin_schwantz_school_track_tips/
Click to expand...

@daveh: Thanks for the link. That is as nice and concise a summary as I have seen on the subject of motorcycle cornering regardless of your riding style.

In my opinion, for those who want to learn, it is an excellent summary for all motorcyclists (street and track) to read and understand.

One of the key but subtle points in the link referenced above is incremental approach to things to give the rider time to try, learn, process and integrate.

Thanks again to daveh.
 
daveh said:
Al-otment said:
xbackslider,

Suggest you Google 'Motorcycle Race Track Tips' and you should find Kevin Schwantz (alias Mr Magoo) Suzuki School. 32 tips on racing technique. Advocates what's in the Mr Magoo training manual for inept riders with square tyres riding two wheeled desks I think. But what does he know?
Click to expand...

Well, Al, here are the 32 tips, and they all make sense for beginners or track dayers who may have got into bad habits. I participate in track day training at my local circuit, and these would resonate with us.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto ... rack_tips/

…and notice these:
23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).

In other words, they are introducing you to trail braking…and if we ride alpine switchbacks, we need to trail brake, especially downhill, otherwise we will be out of control (said before by Ludwig).

I don't see a conflict between what xback said and the above tips. I've watched him ride on video and he can ride fast and stay in control (and he knows that road well).

None of us can afford to lay the law down on what is the one and only way to ride a bike but we can say what works from our experiences.
Click to expand...


I was arguing against braking around corners. Ease off and release are terms I associate with not braking. It dosen't matter wether you're taking a corner on the flat or a steep hill. You need to be at a speed you are comfortable with and the correct gear so you can accelerate round and out.
 
Al-otment said:
Ease off and release are terms I associate with not braking.
Click to expand...

As roll on and open the throttle are terms one associates with not accelerating?????

Perhaps the term you are associating with is "back peddling" :oops:

Let the flames and barbs begin.
 
Dances with Shrapnel said:
Al-otment said:
Ease off and release are terms I associate with not braking.
Click to expand...

As roll on and open the throttle are terms one associates with not accelerating?????

Perhaps the term you are associating with is "back peddeling" :oops:

Let the flames and barbs begin.
Click to expand...


Eh?
 
The safer surer way to learn about extremes of cycle behavior and recovery sense per particular cycle/rider is to ride about on 1/3-1/2 aired down tires, starting with just the rear, then just front, then both, while doing some easy parking lot circles then some zig zags in one lane on and off throttle & on and off either brake, till scary things beyond your control sense show up, which will then be ingrained-imprinted deep in bones to brain stem to sense it entering similar states at rather higher speeds on balance aired tires and correct reflex reactions with nil time to think d/t some surprise hazard in public or race track. Then move on to nice dry deepish sand or dirt, then fairly even grass-pasture, ala Steve McQueen, then 6"ish snow on open ground, then on moist gravel+sand+clay, then on heated dry elctro statically repelling vibrational rebounding rolling marbles and arrow heads with a cow patty here and a tree fall there at various angles and wind gust directions, then get run off the road into drainage ditch walls on outside of a sweeper with serious debrie in the bottom and log in the way zooming into view... what do ya do.

The best worst incident for me/Peel transitioning into spectacular flat tracker style was when rear tire deflated about 60 going straight on secondary road so didn't notice till cresting a hill on slight curve and it cam off the rim and tried to pass my hip which shot us at a diagonal into oncoming lane, till I bezerkly jerked forks so hard into direction of slide it broke off the stem stop and make fork yoke crush the front of IS fiber glass tank and bent the bar back some on RH side then tire shifted and flipped us the other way but not so far to crush tank on LH back and forth alertnating slide saves till about 15 mph and could straighten up and stop on wrong side of road facing on coming but thank fates none there just then. This is exactly the same reflex skill in fighting a blow out down to about stopping that stays on rim just a lot harder faster but had gotten a sense for it and made decision to fight it to save Peel and won that time but sure wanted to just dive off instead of the hi side crash into tree lined fence.

The only fun slide/drift I do is going a bit fast into a rising Gravel decreaser turn just hold the natural turn angle and give a bit of rear spin so gently gets sideways to travel and slows mainly by gravity as traction so low but comes around just right nil steering effort. To go slower put front into alernating counter to straight steering jerks and to use brakes would just slip out or skew bike too much, so just kind of ski it around under some constant but not wild thrust.
 
Hobot, I owe you an apology. I thought your references to riding on the dirt were not relevant to road racing. Afterv watching the slow-mo videos of MotoGP bikes in corners, I perceive they are using the relationship between slide and drive as the bikes are always moving sideways at those power levels. With a Norton which always has less then 80 BHP, you don't usually progress to that level. There is an interesting article on the 500cc Guzzi bicylindrica in this month's Motorcycle Classics which give a comparison with the handling of a Manx Norton. The Guzzis stayed competitive with the four cylinder Gileras and MVs much longer, as a better package even if underpowered.
 
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