acotrel » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:43 am
Hobot, I owe you an apology. I thought your references to riding on the dirt were not relevant to road racing. Afterv watching the slow-mo videos of MotoGP bikes in corners, I perceive they are using the relationship between slide and drive as the bikes are always moving sideways at those power levels. With a Norton which always has less then 80 BHP, you don't usually progress to that level. There is an interesting article on the 500cc Guzzi bicylindrica in this month's Motorcycle Classics which give a comparison with the handling of a Manx Norton. The Guzzis stayed competitive with the four cylinder Gileras and MVs much longer, as a better package even if underpowered.
Just when I thot I'd said enough. Thanks for the nod Alan. If ya go slow enough then there is a difference between loose or firm handling but above some threshold when traction is over come, then its very similar with the major difference being tarmac is rather more forgiving because it tends to re-grip control back sooner/before over the edge. Its not an uncommon comment of salt speeders wishing for more off pavement practice. The Aztecs were said to have developed their blood letting practices because the obsidian knives were so easy to slice, well similar to living on marbles and arrowheads its just so easy slip and bleed.
I am so glad you can relate to what the GP's are up too, always getting wider than they'd like and using up precious tire reserve heating and therefore why I call em corner cripples they can't just flip TF out of those state of outward drifts and hook up phase 3 & 4 higher G force spiked turns. The Britten movie floored me in many ways one being the description of GP vs Superbike etc, GP pilots had to be able to stand em on their rear or their nose and slide and drift and pivot beyond two tire control hardly letting off. Its all about acceleration to me, I've inborn G' force calculator accumulator on idiot savant so don't ride like GP's or regular dirt bikers either, they spin tires and split/divide=substrate traction accleration too much for me. A tire done my way is either imprinted by road texture or edges smeared in tags, not globbed gummed up, not abraided not melted. Best control is very smooth straights > punctuated by violent spikes of various inputs, brake throttle, forks and lean.
Owe Alan apology for snipping at him reflexly about never too light of wheels so something wrong with the cycle or pilot.
Seeing the counter point to ever lighter wheels as 'always' a benefit made me look more into it online, motorcycles to bicycles, especially the off road kind rid to the max, to end up more educated on my confusion. When a cycle gets twitchy it unnerves and over works pilot and its the start of some splash of resonances that snap ya down in a flash. On THE Gravel its routine for bike to slip and self correct faster than pilot can react, so tends to build some tolerance for slightly out of control events you sense need no action. Another point in Britten movie that floored me was what one of his riders said before he died, coming off some hill approach bike gets upset twitchy but he just hangs on WOT praying it'll work itself out.
I never could induce any twitch or sense of out of control on Peel. I know the forces it takes to break free on heated race tires and how much more they can take than street tires spiking G's off hot slicks edges tossing the Ninja or SV650 but they always let go with a surprise suddeness that upsets bike by changing lean angle &/or steering aim. Never happened on Peel, just drifted wider to carry on same angle and turn radius, or could help rear swing out further but never w/o having to on purpose every time make her break loose. With that stability i think blown big block Peel might be able to cut some track times down to confuse onlookers and please me no end. Otherwise imagine the fun learning to stunt ride and just cut up on commutes now and then.
Early on and early off GP brakes, can only top these guys if don't have to brake as long, which mean hotter entry if ya can even imagine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huGexZrovco
here's the lean forces I want to top on an isolastic pushrod. An air cooled push rod ain't going have hp to press near 200 mph but it sure can about match the torque to mass ratio so similar accelerations up to some hp-speed threshold. Some these dudes can get ~ 60' over so should be worthy competition to find pecking order. What can put more time with more power down - by smoothness or digital-ness?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EfqG6YOM1g
