What do I have?

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I have owned and restored British cars for many years. This is my first try at restoring a British bike. I acquired a 72 Norton Commando (built Dec 1971). It has been sitting for 25yrs inside, but for some reason has lost its seat, gas tank, and front wheel. Without the gas tank and seat I don't know what version it is. The serial # is about 300 prior to the start of the combat, per one web site. The motor is not painted like the combat nor does it have the "C" on the head. I think it may be an interstate but it has black fenders. How can I tell where to start. Also what years will wheels, tanks, and seats interchange.

Gary
 
If the side covers are triangular in shape and fit between the frame tubes, it is likely a roadster. If the side covers extend past the front frame tube, almost hiding the air cleaner, it is likely an interstate. 72 non-combat bikes normally have a front drum brake, too.

many parts are interchangeable between years, with some exceptions. Drum brake front wheel will bolt on to drum brake forks, Disc brake wheel on disc brake forks. Tanks and seats fit all years, except Mk III with the hinged seat.

Steel replacement tanks are now available for Roadster and Interstate.
 
Thanks

The side covers fit between the frame tubes, I don't have the front wheel or the master cyl. so I don't know if it had disc or drum. It has two bolt holes on the fork tube that I believe the caliper bolted to, so therefore I believe it is a disc brake bike. But what about the black fenders, all I've seen is chrome.
 
radwork said:
I think it may be an interstate but it has black fenders.


But what makes you think it's an Interstate above all others? Black mudguards/fenders are unlikely to be original, although the Fastback model did have a short Black rear mudguard under the tail piece, but the Fastback had a chromed front mudguard, as the other standard '72 models did.

Are the side covers still there? [Edit: that information was posted while I was typing] If so, which type do they resemble (see links below), as they vary between models?

What style of exhaust system is fitted? (see links) as the '72 Interstate had its own style of exhaust system.

radwork said:
Also what years will wheels, tanks, and seats interchange.

Basically...Commando drum brake wheels/forks should all interchange, I think. All disc wheels/forks interchange '72-'74. It's only the R/H slider that's actually different between disc and drum forks.

1975-on forks will also interchange with earlier disc wheels. The '75-on disc wheel is slightly different but could still be used with the earler disc forks.

Most "Interstate", "Roadster" and "Hi-Rider" model seats and tanks are interchangeable as a pair but for instance, you can't easily mix seats and tanks from the different body styles without some modification.





Commando model identification:

http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Commando.htm

http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models/ ... etail.html
 
What do I have

Hi Gary,

After all the years passing any previous owner can have made changes to the body parts so you can't be certain. The best way to know how your Commando left the factory is to check with the NOC and their factory records project. I worked on the project several years ago from the Northern California Branch and have copies of a few of the records. For instance I have Commando numbers 200180 through 200389. If yours fits in here let me know, I may have the answer.

Regards,

David
NCNOC
 
L.A.B. said:
Most "Interstate", "Roadster" and "Hi-Rider" model seats and tanks are interchangeable as a pair but for instance, you can't easily mix seats and tanks from the different body styles without some modification.

To further that point, there is no such thing as an Interstate frame or Hi-Rider engine... Seat, tank, sidecover, grabrail, and handlebars are what differentiate the types. You can rebuild your bike into whatever model you desire. Serial number won't matter, records weren't kept on what was built into what for the vast majority of parts...

- HJ
 
Thanls everyone

David

Mine is 2018XX version, if you have anything in that range let me know.

I like the roadster style, so that what I will probably end up with, but if I could find out I will try to stay original.

Can't help it it is just in my blood, just like the first time I saw someone put a MGB engine into an MGA or put webers in place of SU, it just ain't right.

Also any recommended parts dealer, new or used.
 
Re: Thanls everyone

radwork said:
Mine is 2018XX

That number would place its production date somewhere around April '72.


For further information, I suggest you contact the library section of the UK VMCC: http://www.vmcc.net/ (don't expect an instant response) as they do have copies of the remaining factory records.
 
'72 Norton what do I have

Hi Gary,

With respect to L.A.B., my '72 750 combat roadster is also 2018xx and was confirmed by the Norton Owners Club in England using the original factory records to have been built Dec 1971 which is what the VIN plate says. I have seen another machine at Rabers in San Jose within the same sequece number (2018xx) that also shows Dec 71 on the VIN plate. To be sure what version yours was exiting the factory - either the VMCC as L.A.B. suggests or contact the NOC in England.

I notice from the copies of records I have, the bikes delivered in England have lower sequence numbers, but were delivered later than machines going to the US.

David
 
Re: '72 Norton what do I have

illf8ed said:
With respect to L.A.B., my '72 750 combat roadster is also 2018xx and was confirmed by the Norton Owners Club in England using the original factory records to have been built Dec 1971 which is what the VIN plate says. I have seen another machine at Rabers in San Jose within the same sequece number (2018xx) that also shows Dec 71 on the VIN plate. To be sure what version yours was exiting the factory - either the VMCC as L.A.B. suggests or contact the NOC in England.

David,

You could be right?

I was quoting from the serial number time-line in Steve Wilson's Norton book, which dates "201778" (being quite close to 2018xx) to April '72, however certain other serial numbers do appear to be out of sequence, as "202116" is listed as being from March '72 production?

However, consecutive serial numbers were abandoned from the start of 1972 production.

Previously you said, quote: "I have Commando numbers 200180 through 200389"

But radwork's Commando is 2018xx, not 20018x ?

So do you actually mean both serial 200180 and radwork's 2018xx are from from Dec '71 production? As that would suggest they built in excess of 1600 Commandos in just one month,-unless those numbers were used out of sequence?
 
Re: Thanls everyone

radwork said:
Mine is 2018XX version, if you have anything in that range let me know.

Radwork,

Are you sure that number is correct? As you said previously that, quote:"The serial # is about 300 prior to the start of the combat, per one web site."

Which website are you referring to?

As serial 2018xx would be some 800 numbers after the first standard production Combat model, which was supposed to have started at 200976.
 
'72 serial numbers

Hi L.A.B.

I had two references. I have a copy of the factory records from 200180 and separately confirmed with the NOC that my Commando 2018xx was built in Dec 71.

David
 
Your right

I meant to say that the Combat started about 300 prior to mine. That was an approximation. Mine is 2018XX with dec 1971 stamped on the tag. I emailed the Library to get more information.

Thanks
 
I don't know how Norton batched their numbers, but I used to work on classic Ford Mustangs. For the 1965 and '66 model years, they assigned numbers by factory (F, R,T) body style (07,08,09), and engine (U,T,F,C,D,A,K).

a 1966 Fastback Mustang, built in San Jose, California with a Hi-Po 289 engine would carry serial number 6R09Kxxxxxx. These numbers were assigned in batches, and what would have looked like consecutive numbers actually could have been built months apart (production date was stamped on the door data plate, independent of the serial number). Generally, cars were run in batches, by shift or day, and the relative production rates of the various models were based on sales projections, then modified based on actual orders.

Perhaps Norton batched numbers by model, which would mean that a rush of Interstate orders, for example, would run through their allotment before, say, a batch of Hi-rider orders. Therefore, an Interstate may have a number several hundred, or even thousand, higher than a Hi-rider built in the same month. I know only a few parts separate the various models, but assigning a number to a model in advance helps in forecasting needs from suppliers. The interchangeability of seats, tanks, bars, silencers and sidecovers muddles things thirty-odd years later.

I know my '73 850, with a build date of 4-73, has serial 3030xx. As I understand it, production of the 850 didn't start until April, 1973. I don't think they ran through 3000 bikes in one month. Since my bike came with fiberglass tank and side covers, I suspect it was not originally a Roadster, and a previous owner converted it with '71 or '72 parts. Perhaps the first 1000 numbers were assigned to Roadsters, the second to Interstates, and the third to Hi-Riders, or some similar logic.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the model theory is correct. On old Goldwings for example, the 500 76 yellow bikes were all consecutive numbers. My LTD is one of the batch of consecutive serial numbers for LTDs.

It only makes sense to build a lot of the same model at the same time. You'd just deliver all the panels needed and bolt them on until that run was done.

Things can always screw up a bit when the factories run out of an item, this just tends to make some interesting model mixes. For example I had a 68 Volvo 125 wagon that had a bunch of 145 bits like seat and engine. The last TR3s had the TR4 engine and are quite sought after.

I'm quite sure my G15CSR had Norton mufflers and was not supposed to. I imagine they ran out of the Matchless bits.

When Norton was getting near the end I bet production got really interesting on the line.
 
BillT said:
I know my '73 850, with a build date of 4-73, has serial 3030xx. As I understand it, production of the 850 didn't start until April, 1973.

It does seem to depend to a certain extent on whose information is being referred to?
As 850 production could have started around February '73 (again according to information given in Steve Wilson's book)?

I certainly think that "production" dates and "dispatch" dates were likely to have been different, and may be one reason for these discrepancies?


BillT said:
Since my bike came with fiberglass tank and side covers, I suspect it was not originally a Roadster, and a previous owner converted it with '71 or '72 parts.

As Interstate and Hi-Rider model fuel tanks were slill listed in "glass fibre" in the '73 parts book as well as steel, there's always the possibility that they used up old stock glass fibre Roadster tanks on the early '73 Roadsters? The law did change in the UK, as the fitting of fibre glass fuel tanks was banned around that time, so maybe the factory used up old stocks on the export models?
 
L.A.B. said:
BillT said:
Since my bike came with fiberglass tank and side covers, I suspect it was not originally a Roadster, and a previous owner converted it with '71 or '72 parts.

As Interstate and Hi-Rider model fuel tanks were still listed in "glass fibre" in the '73 parts book as well as steel, there's always the possibility that they used up old stock glass fibre Roadster tanks on the early '73 Roadsters? The law did change in the UK, as the fitting of fibre glass fuel tanks was banned around that time, so maybe the factory used up old stocks on the export models?

It is possible, I suppose, that the Roadster tank I got with the bike is original to the bike. Since the tank and sidecovers had been painted at least six times, there was no way of telling what the original decals said.

I know that Triumph changed the gas tanks on Speed Triples to steel from plastic for the 2007 model year, but many of the tanks were still plastic, well into the '07 production run. The only ones that were steel from the beginning of production were the ones in a new-for-07 color.
 
Norton sequence numbers

Hi BillT,

You could be right. I haven't seen much reason in the few pages of the records I have, however I do see "batches" of models as you say. Unlike Ford Mustangs, Norton had no build code to designate one model from the next.

It wasn't a restorate, but my first car was a San Jose build '66 Mustang - 6R07T152324. Bought when I was a senior in high school, April '71. If you can believe my 19 year old son has a '68 coupe now. I told him if I had bought a 40 year old car in '71 it would have been a Model A!

David
 
I know my '73 850, with a build date of 4-73, has serial 3030xx. As I understand it, production of the 850 didn't start until April, 1973.

Those lists are approximation only. I have two '73 MkV 750's which supposedly were not built until March '73 (engine #220000) but both of mine have frame tags with build date of 11-72 and engine #2208XX.

I have heard stories that the factory assembled rolling chassis and mated these with the tank, seat, sidecovers, and handlebar as needed. I guess this might explain how the engine/frame combo got a November build date but the record shows they completed it in March??

Just a guess.
 
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