Shift patterns and why 1 up 3 down ?

Greetings,
Hope everyones having a good riding season. I was thinking about various shift patterns, my first bike (71 Kawasaki) shifted 5 up, and in my current stable: 74 Commando 1 up 3 down R side, borrowed 70 Triumph 1 down 3 up R side, 02 Bonneville 1 down 4 up L side, 02 Chang Jiang 1 down 3 up L side (but with heel toe shifter), 80 C70 Honda 3 up L side (with heel toe shifter), Chinese scooter full automatic. I switch between them frequently and have had no problems doing so, so far. I tell myself that if I ever find myself in a "situation" to just grab both levers and stomp both pedals.
Anyway, I was wondering if there was any kind of story behind 1 up 3 down shifting, and if any other brand motorcycles had used it in the past.

GB

I think most British bikes up until the mid 70's were one up, except Triumph's which were allways one down!

Dave.

I really like the 3 down, when you want to go faster you just tap down. And BOOM, you're going faster!

To answer your question to the best of my ability - Hellifino! Now, I was TOLD that it was made for more positive up-shifts. But even then (early 20s) I said DUWHA?

Almost everything (US and Euro) were right side shift. Along came the Happy, bugs in the teeth, Hondookie riders on left shifters and we threw history out the friggin' window. Somebody decided that, as a safety issue, it was better for both front and rear brakes to be on the same side, rather than following some silly tradition. So, all US spec motorcycles had to shift on the left in 1975 and everyone but the Japanese had to change. Hmmm.

My "It shifts on the left" story:

In 1973, I was a mechanic at the Triumph/Norton dealership in the day and a soldier at night. I say that because I was tired all the time. Why I did that, I don't know, other than I liked toys and toys cost money. A fool and his money are soon parted.

It was late one fall afternoon and I had finished up installing aftermarket exhaust and air filters on a Honda twin complete with carb overhaul and rejet. I was coasting into the parking lot from a high speed clean chop for a mainjet plug reading. As I came around the corner of the building (leaning over slightly) I decided to start hunting neutral. I stomped the crap out of the brakes and was on my butt right in front of the showroom and people and my boss and the owner. I had no idea what had happened. All I knew was I was riding that motorcycle lying on it's side over there and then I wasn't. I was clueless other than the bike had just "slid right out from under me, like the rear wheel locked up for a second or something!" I didn't do nothing...whudn't me! It's that damn Hondookie...Then the Service Mgr stated the obvious, and walked off shaking his head. All he said was fix it before you go home.

That was the last time I have had a problem switching sides. All it took was some roadrash and an Ego puncture. :roll:

Mike

Otherwise known as race pattern.
Plenty of racers on modern machines will reverse the gearchange for a down for up pattern, if you're cranked over and want to change up it's a lot easier and faster to knock the lever down.

The real question is why did they ever go away from it?

I have my Dunstall Combat shifter flipped back t the rearset position, so it's familiar one-down-three-up.

I don't lake the "race pattern" / OEM Norton 1-up-3-down.

That's funny cuz im doing '65 bonnie cafe build, and am planning on rear sets with the Shifter flipped. That way it'll match the commando! Don't know for sure why its the way it is. Heard from a geezer that it was done that way because riders tend to lean forward while accelerating and pressing down on the Shifter was more comfortable. When decelerating riders sit up, making the upward movement easier.

Also heard that the flat trackguys loved the rift hand shift setup more than the left because.the left foot was allways kicked out in turns.

Just heresay, take it for what its worth.
personally, I like the arrangement. Feels right. Balanced. Left hand right foot. Right hand left foot.

1up 3 dn is a racer set up when leaned way over and need to shift up to keep accelerating but no space between the shifter peg and road surface. LH shift for flat tracking in CCW track tradition too. I can' say as I'd ever had road foul my shifts on regular Cdo's but boy howdy it did on linked Peel, so soon installed the over head rear set linkage instead of lighter trimmer reversed shift lever. Peel was so secure it was a big shock to have boot toe jerked off and almost under bike. Indians can lean and shift even further I think with their tank lever : )

Another puzzling bit, on bicycles, the right hand operates the rear brake (except in the UK I think). I always set up my bicycles to right hand front brake, the same as it is on a motorcycle, no confusion. Now why didn't the lawmakers make it like that :?: probably makes too much sense.

If they did have any sense, they would have forced the newcomers (Honda and al) to adopt the same side shifter that the local boys (HD) were using, the right side.

Jean

Jeandr said:

Another puzzling bit, on bicycles, the right hand operates the rear brake (except in the UK I think). I always set up my bicycles to right hand front brake, the same as it is on a motorcycle, no confusion. Now why didn't the lawmakers make it like that :?: probably makes too much sense.

If they did have any sense, they would have forced the newcomers (Honda and al) to adopt the same side shifter that the local boys (HD) were using, the right side.

Jean

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I think its just the US/Canada that has the front brake on the left, Asia/Australasia its pretty standard for right hand front brake. The way MTB brakes pull up now days I wouldnt want to risk grabbing the wrong one...

Norton's 'down for up' pattern would be a direct inheritance from the three-speed Sturmey Archer hand change box. I'm trying to work out whether it would be more logical to push away when accelerating or pull back. Car drivers with an 'H' gate have to do both so it can't require much concentration, either way.

The early positive stop foot-change boxes have a pretty long travel. Hooking up to accelerate would not make for as quick a change as tapping down. That said, on a bike with borderline brakes it would sometimes be nice to be able to stamp the box down a bit more quickly.

No accounting for tastes or tradition, the big Red Indian Chief I used to ride had throttle on the LH but clutch was a peddle affair for L foot.

Some of you guys must be pups! Before the Japs came along almost everything had a right shift. Brits, Italians. BSA had 1 up on the A10s and A7s and then with the unit motors they went 1 down, both on the right side. Weird. Up until the fifties, Harley Panheads had a left hand brake lever for the front brake and then changed to the right. Even weirder, all the Harley big twins had a left foot 1 down shift, (once they'd discovered foot shifters!) but the Sportsters had right hand shift (1 up as I recall) from day one until they had to change in the seventies as well.

I ride a '99 Buell X1 as well and i can switch easily, but I do prefer the Norton shift pattern.

I want to get a newer Triumph one of these days, but I'd need to figure out how to check it to a right shift with 1up4down. :mrgreen:

In vintage racing circles the down for up pattern is called the "GP" shift pattern. I think they even refer to it that way in the AHRMA rule book. The GP pattern allows you to put your foot on top of the shift lever when in a turn providing more clearance than provided with the foot under the lever. As you power out of the turn it's easier to then shift up in gears by simply pressing down.

My Manx does not have a GP shift pattern. It shifts up for up meaning I have to put my foot under the lever in turns to upshift. I have large gouges in the front soles of my boots from putting my foot under the shifter. I've often thought of changing the pattern to the GP.

Ok dookie StevenMadManix, can you tell me if a Manx chassis is tolerate of snicking an upshift WOT in mid apex max lean?

Wow Steve, GP shift pattern or not it must really feel good to be able to honestly say those two simple words, " My Manx "!!! My first bikes were Nortons so I learned on the 1 up pattern, but I had Guzzi's later & got used to the Left side 1 down gig too. After not having a bike for some ten + years I have to admit the 1 up 3 down thing felt odd. I like 1 down 3 up for some reason my brain thinks that way but I can adapt.

hobot said:

Ok dookie StevenMadManix, can you tell me if a Manx chassis is tolerate of snicking an upshift WOT in mid apex max lean?

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Yes!!! and so is a Seeley......right and left hand corners before you ask!

When I explain how the Norton shifts to Newbs that have known nothing but left hand one down and three or four up I get some interesting looks. And a few comments on how do you do that? I also have a BSA that shifts 1 down on the right so the old addage of in a panic pull in both levers and stomp down on both feet works.

The Norton was the first bike I owned back in 1974. Taught myself how to ride on it, so right side shifting 1 up 3 down is natural for me. Left hand shifting is awkward (but managable).

JD