Reverse shift pattern myth

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1up3down said:
coming off a Suzuki with left foot down and up shift pattern over to my first Norton I have to admit it took some getting used to, fortunately no accidents learning

however there were deaths, and not just a handful, and easy enough to understand why when young guys trained on Japanese bikes hopped on British bikes and thinking they were putting on the rear brake were simply putting the bike in a higher gear

the US government recognized this real problem and mandated all bikes imported had to shift the same, on the left with a down for first and up pattern in 1975
good law,made sense preventing unnecessary injuries and deaths
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I've always understood US legislation forced the left foot change, but did this legislation actually happen ?
I had an 82 Laverda Mirage that had the gear change on the right.
I'm thinking that it might not have actually happened (the law) as in the same way that convertibles were supposed to be banned (forcing the Triumph TR7 to have that appalling roof added , after it had been designed as a convertible.
sam
 
gripper said:
I believe that a lot of racers of modern machinery reverse the shift pattern to one up 5 down to enable them to change up when leant over coming out of a bend without trapping their foot under the lever.
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I have a Yamaha engined race bike with left change that I have converted to be the same as my Norton. One it means that even though I have to use different feet, the change pattern is the same, but also, pressing down to change up is often known as 'race pattern'.

TTi expects racers to want the 1up4down pattern, implemented with a reversed lever, which is why Alan was surprised by what TTi delivered. I have the same reversed selector drum, so I implemented a reversed linkage, it may look a bit odd but works a treat. My feet aren't long enough to reach a reversed pedal on a Rickman!

There is certainly something to what gripper says, but it is also true that it is less of a movement to press the pedal down whilst tucked in, and that under braking you sit up and are thrust forward, making the 'up for down' movement somehow more natural before moving your toe to the foot rest as you tip in.

Talk of 'stomping' makes me think Alan hasn't used his TTi box as much as he should, a 'knife through butter' little press does it.

In fact since I have discovered scrape marks on the underside of the pedal tip, I worry more about an unexpected downshift!

Please don't say 'raise the footrests' I had to lower them an inch to cope with a less flexible body than I had 40 years ago!
 
i prefer up for upshifts and down for downshifts, but i can adjust to anything after a bit. the norton pattern makes sense after a mile or two. there's no "natural" shift pattern on an inanimate gearbox- what works best for any particular person is what that person happens to like.

i have an LSR machine with a heel press rear set for upshift and no downshift at all. when you're done you reach down with your hand and fiddle with the levers so you can ride away. this works okay, but only for me, i imagine.

lol
 
We have moved away somewhat from the original post being about the myth of simply reversing the cam plate!! Although I'd like to know if there really were deaths because of RH gear changes?? And did the law actually change? Just to muddy the waters further my old t500 Suzuki had a gear change spline both sides of the engine , some other Japanese bikes had this aswell I believe!!
 
Madnorton said:
Or just use Norton part 04.0578E as per the service release N3/12 - it fits Commando, Manx with AMC box, Matchless and AJS racers also, allows the pattern to be and / or lever to be reversed as you so desire.
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Madnorton please explain, can't find anything about Norton part 04.0578E or service release N3/12 :?: :?:
 
Someone I knew had a brand new Honda 250 just 38 miles before sticking into a ditch because he was used to riding an old BSA.
 
Because of lack of cash, I have only used the TTI box on one occasion and then very slowly. I am aware that with that box, it is very easy to move through the next gear and into the next neutral. I get the impression that some guys might be in the habit of whacking the throttle wide open, and stomping on the gear change. I always feed the throttle on in one positive smooth motion and with the gear change it is a firm press, never a stomp. One of the secrets of being a fast rider is to be smooth. In the old days we had graded races. If you were ever out with the A-Graders, the biggest difference you noticed was their smoothness. These days I am very smooth because I don't want to crash and become a wrinkly skin bag full of bone chips.
 
That thing about trapping your foot under the gear-change lever. I've heard that previously, however I've never encountered that problem. It probably only ever happens when road bikes are converted into racers. With my Seeley, everything is too high for that to happen. And in any case, the way the bike handles in corners, it is more upright than most other bikes. It sort of turns under itself as it tightens it's line, due to the steering geometry (probably dangerous ?).
 
Ok I might get burnt at the stake for this, but if you coming out the last bend onto the straight in first, throttle pinned to 15k rpm and you tapping down the gear lever with a quickshifter installed though to 6th gear and hitting 270kph, well all I can say is it's one of life's little pleasures, and shifting down for up seems the right way.
 
acotrel said:
That thing about trapping your foot under the gear-change lever. I've heard that previously, however I've never encountered that problem. It probably only ever happens when road bikes are converted into racers.

quote]

Not only converted road bikes but most modern sport bikes whose owners take them to the track once in a while. The faster you go and more confident you become, the more you need to lean to get around a turn faster. That's the law of physics. One can hang off to counterbalance but that in itself will allow you to go even faster. Even if you have the skills you'll still be limited eventually by lean. Racers do no not want their foot to be a limiting factor in a left turn (or right turn if a Norton) upshift situation. 99% of us don't have those skills anyway but then again 99% of us don't need paddle shifting duel clutch transmissions on our Golfs either but we like them. (Though actually I personally like proper 3 peddle 5 or 6 speed.
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Really it had nothing to do about deaths why they changed, the Japenese were taking over the market so Norton and others had to keep up with them, so it was a world wide change
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it was made Federal Law here in United States, and it had nothing to do with Norton "having to keep up with the Japanese" , it was about safety

same reason later laws were passed limiting handlebar height to no higher than shoulders, preventable injuries and deaths (think - seat belt laws, etc)
 
... there were deaths, and not just a handful, and easy enough to understand why when young guys trained on Japanese bikes hopped on British bikes and thinking they were putting on the rear brake were simply putting the bike in a higher gear

the US government recognized this real problem and mandated all bikes imported had to shift the same, on the left with a down for first and up pattern in 1975
good law,made sense preventing unnecessary injuries and deaths
Click to expand...


Sorry sir, but I'm calling BS on this argument. If you're not bright enough to know the shift pattern on you're bike, you're not bright enough to ride a bike,,, period.
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ok fine then, you can call BS until the cows come home,
-by the way, pretty sure you can request a copy of those Hearings even now if you wish to verify that it was about safety and not your personal brightness and shifting ability
 
You can do some research on Ralph Nader and find the root of the law that changed the motorcycle industry. He finally got congress to act on it. That was for safety, however, I am enough of a cynic to believe that left side shift was picked because somebody had an interest in Japanese industry. You have to remember that Japan was occupied for a long time after WWII. To think American corporations didn't have a stake would be naive I think. Whereas they did not have the same investment in England.

Russ
 
back to nortonspeeds post, not sure who has them but reverse camplates are available, probably RGM or Norvil. I think Quaife camplates are reversible at least I'm sure the 5 speeds I have are.
 
1up3down said:
however there were deaths, and not just a handful, and easy enough to understand why when young guys trained on Japanese bikes hopped on British bikes
Click to expand...

Guys trained on British bikes hopped onto Japanese bikes.

and thinking they were putting on the rear brake were simply putting the bike in a higher gear
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Guys who couldn't ride a bike, trying to do their braking with the rear brake.


the US government recognized this real problem and mandated all bikes imported had to shift the same, on the left with a down for first and up pattern in 1975
good law,made sense preventing unnecessary injuries and deaths
Click to expand...

Not a good law for Harley, or some Italian factories.
 
Sorry to keep on about this but were there really any deaths caused by riders using the gear lever as a brake??? If so how did investigators know it was the cause of death! Unless the dying rider said he accidentally braked using the gear lever!! Or there was an independent witness saying the rider used the gear lever to brake with?, Both scenarios seem unlikely to me ,does anybody know for sure?
 
My preference is for the Japanese pattern even though I race. Firstly because I was brought up on Japanese bikes and got used to it, but also because I always had road bikes, mainly Japanese, so I liked to keep the same pattern on all my bikes. And thirdly because I found that on a racetrack there were a few occasions when you arrive at a first gear corner right at the end of a 5th or 6th gear straight and tapping down five gears in a few seconds is easier than hooking your toe under and pulling up five times in a few seconds.

Finally, if you're leant over so far you can't get your toe under the lever... what are you doing changing gear at that time?
 
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