She's Back!

Nathan:

A very inspiring story. In some respects, I wish I'd had the money to get a Mk.1 Commando when I left N-V to emigrate to Boeing country. The employee price back then was less than £400! Of course, riding a bike among all the little old ladies in their Cadillacs and Buick Electras who have to look through the steering wheel to see where they're going might have been life-shortening! I haven't ridden on the road since we emigrated in 1968. As said, 17,000 miles isn't a lot. My "ride-to-work" company 650SS had 135,000 on its odometer. I rode it 45 mile each way to work for over a year.

I don't know if you're familiar with the annual "Oyster Run" here in Anacortes. Last year wasn't very well attended - there were "ONLY" 2200 bikes here! It's usually the last weekend in October, which might be a bit late in the year for a ride across the Cascades from Idaho. In the 16 years we've lived here, I've never see any Norton models around for the event. It would be great to see your masterpiece. When I know the actual date, I'll send you a PM.

There's a fairly active Norton Owners group in Western Washington, and a really active "Vintage Motorcycle Club" in the Burlington/Mount Vernon area. A member of that latter club is in his mid-80's and stll riding. He lives just a couple of miles away from me and has a recent Triumph tourer and a vintage Matchless 500 scrambler for which he designed and built an electric starter. He decided kicking over a big single with artificial knees was too risky.

If you remove the front engine mount and 3 of the 4 rear engine mount bolts you can remove the gearbox.

lazyeye6 said:

"Heli-coils; yep, someone beat me to it."

Weren't Heli-coils installed at the factory?

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Unless I am very much mistaken, the answer is no.

Bernhard said:

lazyeye6 said:

"Heli-coils; yep, someone beat me to it."

Weren't Heli-coils installed at the factory?

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Unless I am very much mistaken, the answer is no.

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We're talking 850 cases here, so yes, you would be mistaken.

The four 850 barrel through-bolt holes were Heli-coiled, presumably to reduce the chance of the case threads eventually stripping from periodic cylinder barrel removal and replacement as the through-bolts must be removed each time, unlike the base studs which aren't normally disturbed.

The oil pump stud holes on late Commandos can also be Heli-coiled, and there may be others.

Nater_Potater said:

Nathan

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I noticed this morning while looking at the picture with your transmission housing that the slotted hole in the transmission cradle looks pretty badly worn. Maybe it is just the way the picture is photographed, I don't know. If it is badly worn then this is a good time to remove the whole cradle and do either a weld repair or get a replacement cradle. If you decide to do a repair, the center stand bolt holes and center stand spring hole probably need repair as well.


Peter Joe

Yes indeed ,the cradle to tranny upper mount looks like it is knackered from sliding back and forth because someone neglected to tighten . . That would mean the primary chain would be snapping back and forth with shiftings and accelerations. Cradle will have to be pulled if so for replacement or repairs. Sorry. :cry:

PeterJoe said:

Nater_Potater said:

Nathan

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...the slotted hole in the transmission cradle looks pretty badly worn. Maybe it is just the way the picture is photographed...

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Torontonian said:

...That would mean the primary chain would be snapping back and forth with shiftings and accelerations...

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My, what sharp little peepers you guys all have! I am happy to report that the upper mount hasn't moved one iota, and the primary chain is in great condition. What you're seeing is undisturbed black paint that was intact under the nut.

Nathan

Goodly.

I recall that if you leave the front iso in place and remove the 3 studs on the back of the crankcases/cradle you can swivel the cradle backwards on the rear iso bolt far enough to expose the cutout in the front lower RH cradle. you can then remove the gearbox. Thats what the cutout is for but it's masked by the crankcase.

Top end and transmission all done, and she lit up the first kick this last Saturday!
Repaired/replaced so far this round:
Exhaust ports with Jim's bronze inserts (thanks, Jim!)
Heli-coils in the head stud holes (that's what started this whole mess)
Front iso
Top iso
Layshaft bearing
Venhill ptfe-lined clutch cable
Re-ringed

Here's what you do when all of your specialty tools are buried deep in a storage unit, and it's too late to run to the parts store for some hose to help lap the valves into their seats:

No big deal as long as you make sure to rinse any remaining lapping compound before re-attaching it to the carb. And, yes; I did remove the carb before attempting to lap the valves!


So far, after 150 miles, there's no smoke at all from the tail pipes, so the re-ringing must have taken. Leakdown is still a bit high based on "feel" at the kickstarter, but I've picked up a few pounds over the winter...

Look what just showed up last night!

That's my new Pazon Altair! Anxiously awaiting to see what it does for the idle stabilization.

I carry the exhaust rose wrench with me, and take a pull on the roses 'most every stop. As of last night, they hardly moved. Here's hoping they'll finally settle in and not need any more attention.

So far, I have about a grand USD into this little endeavor. Ready for another summer!

Nathan

After the re-ringing, oil usage is a thing of the past! Also, no more leakage around the head gasket.
The Altair has worked admirably by returning a steady idle. As a bonus, the perceived acceleration at lower rpm's (2000-3000) seems "fatter". I can only chalk this up to the advance coming in sooner than the original AAU. Since I didn't map the curve from the old, 18,000 mile unit, I can't substantiate that claim. Whatever; it works better. No pinking, so that's a good sign.

Tuesday morning trip to work at 0700 hours; nice long 45 mph sweeper, and the tires are doing their usual squirm across the tar snakes. Funny thing, though; it's cool enough that that shouldn't be happening. After exiting the turn, the squirm is still there. Crap!



After the three mile walk back home (yes, I had my phone; the wife wasn't answering...), we grabbed the portable air tank in hopes of getting enough air in for a blast back home for a patch, but nothing doing. This is the second ride home in the Dodge. Not knowing what I might find, a new tube was purchased on the way home from work for an evening repair. The old tube had a 1/2" tear from the screw. A patch would have taken care of that, but I already had the new tube in hand. This morning's ride went much smoother.

The front Iso bushings were replaced about 200 miles ago, causing an increase in vibration! Not what the doctor ordered. During the swap, the new bushings did feel "stiffer" than what was pulled. I remember hobot mentioning using a bench grinder to thin the edges of his new bushings down to around 3/8" wide, so off with the front mount. Instead of the grinding, I tried drilling a number of 5/16" holes through the bushings. A 90' section was left untouched from 10:30 to 1:30, since that area is where the weight of the engine is carried. It made a noticeable improvement in vibration reduction. Unfortunately, I forgot to take a picture of my handiwork. I hope to have something to show you a couple of weeks down the road when the mount gets pulled for a longevity check.

Nater_Potater said:

The front Iso bushings were replaced about 200 miles ago, causing an increase in vibration! Not what the doctor ordered. During the swap, the new bushings did feel "stiffer" than what was pulled. I remember hobot mentioning using a bench grinder to thin the edges of his new bushings down to around 3/8" wide, so off with the front mount. Instead of the grinding, I tried drilling a number of 5/16" holes through the bushings. A 90' section was left untouched from 10:30 to 1:30, since that area is where the weight of the engine is carried. It made a noticable improvement in vibration reduction. Unfortunately, I forgot to take a picture of my handiwork. I hope to have something to show you a couple of weeks down the road when the mount gets pulled for a longevity check.

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Boy do I hear that a lot. Too bad they can't seem to get the rubber hardness right.
Meanwhile I just grind a 45 degree bevel on the outside edges and narrow the edge to around 3/8th inch. Holes work too, I never tried leaving them un-drilled at the top.

Glad to hear it working well -except for that sheetrock screw. :?

Just got all caught up on this story, fantastic that the Norton has remained in the family.

Im going out to the garage to pet my interback right now.

Nater_Potater said:

...I tried drilling a number of 5/16" holes through the bushings. A 90' section was left untouched from 10:30 to 1:30, since that area is where the weight of the engine is carried.

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Interesting idea Nate. I'd really like to improve the vibes on mine. Might reduce the fatigue failures on the fairing mounted parts too. I thought you might have meant radial holes to emulate the rubber lost by the chamfering / bevel technique, but now I'm thinking you drilled all the way through the rubber axially? How many holes or what sort of spacing between centres?

Is the fairing still kicking about???

Some good practical upgrades there - Along with most of the other lurkers here, I'm more than a little interested on what you think of the Altair.

Good move to have bronze inserts. With matching bronze collars I've found that once tight they stay put, but as insurance I lockwire them on - they must have drilled those holes in the top fin for a reason

B+Bogus said:

Some good practical upgrades there - Along with most of the other lurkers here, I'm more than a little interested on what you think of the Altair.

Good move to have bronze inserts. With matching bronze collars I've found that once tight they stay put, but as insurance I lockwire them on - they must have drilled those holes in the top fin for a reason

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I do not recommend bronze nuts with my inserts.The bronze nuts are soft and will give against the aluminum bronze threads.

Just steel or stainless steel and you will not have to lockwire as they will not tend to come loose after the inserts. Jim

davamb said:

...thinking you drilled all the way through the rubber axially? How many holes or what sort of spacing between centres?

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Correct. The holes run parallel to the through bolt. Using a 5/16" new/sharp drill bit will give you approximately 1/4" entry hole, tapering up to just shy of 5/16" on the backside. Seven holes were placed midpoint between the outer edge of the rubber and the inner steel bush. Leave the upper 90* untouched so as to carry the weight of the engine.
Next try would be to bevel the edges as hobot and Comnoz suggest, and leaving the upper part untouched as was done with the holey bushing.

B+Bogus said:

Along with most of the other lurkers here, I'm more than a little interested on what you think of the Altair.

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Absolutely love it! Granted, it's only been on there for 400 miles, but the idle stabilization is impressive. I'm considering putting the old Amals back on just to see how well the Altair handles the crappy idle brought upon by loose slides. I would kinda like the Amals back on...
Static timing was dirt simple. I checked after with a timing light, but no need; it was exactly where the initial setup put it.

B+Bogus said:

With matching bronze collars I've found that once tight they stay put, but as insurance I lockwire them on - they must have drilled those holes in the top fin for a reason

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After the first heat cycle, the stock steel roses took close to a quarter turn to pull back up tight. Each subsequent trip saw drastically less movement until nothing more could be had after about 10 cycles. Then, I took the pipes back off to work on the front mount! That's okay, it's already back to where I can't get anymore movement out of the roses. I figure to check them every fueling (300 miles) until my OCD wears thin...

Nathan

Nater_Potater said:

... The holes run parallel to the through bolt. Using a 5/16" new/sharp drill bit will give you approximately 1/4" entry hole, tapering up to just shy of 5/16" on the backside. Seven holes were placed midpoint between the outer edge of the rubber and the inner steel bush. Leave the upper 90* untouched so as to carry the weight of the engine.
Next try would be to bevel the edges as hobot and Comnoz suggest, and leaving the upper part untouched as was done with the holey bushing.

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Thanks Nate, I understand. Will have a bash at some experiments myself.

I now have access to a wireless accelerometer which will allow me to quantify true engine vibrations. I hope to run three different trials in the next few weeks, namely: the Holey bushings, stock bushings, and tapered bushing. Once read, the data can be downloaded into a spreadsheet program to create nifty graphs with (hopefully) vibration vs. rpm curves. Stay tuned...

Nathan