P11 AMC gearbox out, TTi 5 speed going in

I suggest you need cush somewhere in the drive train. With my bike, it is in the clutch centre. If uncontrolled impact occurs between the gear teeth inside the box it can cause the hard surface to spall - can lead to destruction.
You should talk to Andy Molnar at TGA, or Bruce at TTi. I don't think they would agree with your doom and gloom scenario.

Andy has yet to break a TTi gearbox and none of his race bikes have cush anything in the drive train. People here have busted TTi gearboxes, but I'll take Andy's word for the strength of the gearboxes.

Uncontrolled impact. Is that like interweb forum advice? ;)
 
Did not start it, but primed the oil system, and made some other small things that are not seen.

As I said the pics are nothing special. Looks same as it ever was to me.

Note how far back the sliding disc is in the inner cover. That location is with the gearbox nearly touching the back of the timing chest. With the belt adjusted the mainshaft goes right through that hole. Shortest belt I could use was the 890mm. All in all a crazy fit. It does work however.

The shiny bumpy part is where I had to grind off a full circle around the sliding disc area and then extend it for the RGM clutch basket. Also did a fair share of grinding on the backside, but it is extra ugly back there.

P11 AMC gearbox out, TTi 5 speed going in


I need to go over the fasteners before I ride it, but this is what the timing side looks like.
P11 AMC gearbox out, TTi 5 speed going in


TTi gearbox in the house with kickstart and shift lever.
P11 AMC gearbox out, TTi 5 speed going in


Not sure what I might do next with this bike. I'll get it on a dyno machine this summer. Don't care what opinions are about dyno machines. I just want to see a baseline from a guy that dynos primarily inline 4 race bikes that make a lot more HP than a Norton 750. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of the old thing. It always draws some attention.

For pure HP and tuning accuracy, I'm thinking maybe I need a GoPro and a dynohill of my own. šŸ¤£

Stay frosty.
If you have wanted to have the forks flush with the top of the fork clamp there is a first class suspension guy near Renton who could do that work easily. He is the best with suspension and a few decades involved with racing. One thing he does quite often is lower off-road bikes for people.
 
If you have wanted to have the forks flush with the top of the fork clamp there is a first class suspension guy near Renton who could do that work easily. He is the best with suspension and a few decades involved with racing. One thing he does quite often is lower off-road bikes for people.

Didn't see that coming. :)

Even though it is a '67 P11 desert sled it's not much of an off road bike. P11 is a good bike on the street unless one is a wuss and can't man up with the vibration. I had a Commando and chose to keep the P11 because it handles better with me on it. With the 4LS on the front it stops better than that 70's something Commando ever did. Also has a lower seat height and weighs about 60lbs less than a stock Commando. I had the Commando in the mid-'80's. No brake kits or other upgrades with a click of the mouse. The web wasn't up and running yet.

I bought the long forks purposely. I can adjust the way the bike handles and they can be used for clip-ons above the top clamp providing a less annoying go fast riding position. Of course, I would have to come up with rear sets to go with clip-ons, but I am personally done with that riding position so have never imagineered rearsets. I have no plans to ever shorten the sanction tubes. If I wanted them shorter, I would have bought them shorter. I'm funny that way.
 
Didn't see that coming. :)

Even though it is a '67 P11 desert sled it's not much of an off road bike. P11 is a good bike on the street unless one is a wuss and can't man up with the vibration. I had a Commando and chose to keep the P11 because it handles better with me on it. With the 4LS on the front it stops better than that 70's something Commando ever did. Also has a lower seat height and weighs about 60lbs less than a stock Commando. I had the Commando in the mid-'80's. No brake kits or other upgrades with a click of the mouse. The web wasn't up and running yet.

I bought the long forks purposely. I can adjust the way the bike handles and they can be used for clip-ons above the top clamp providing a less annoying go fast riding position. Of course, I would have to come up with rear sets to go with clip-ons, but I am personally done with that riding position so have never imagineered rearsets. I have no plans to ever shorten the sanction tubes. If I wanted them shorter, I would have bought them shorter. I'm funny that way.
Usually when putting on a different and more modern set of forks the tubes are a bit longer and allow for adjustment up and down through the fork clamps. For me it's strictly an appearance thing...once the position is found then I want them flush with the top of the clamp.
 
Usually when putting on a different and more modern set of forks the tubes are a bit longer and allow for adjustment up and down through the fork clamps. For me it's strictly an appearance thing...once the position is found then I want them flush with the top of the clamp.
I figured it was your personal choice. Kind of an abrupt lane change, but it is Access Norton.

Note: If I dropped the front end much more, the bike would fall over on the timing side when on the kickstand with the front tire pointing right. Ha

My rear shocks are length adjustable as well.
 
Didn't see that coming. :)

Even though it is a '67 P11 desert sled it's not much of an off road bike. P11 is a good bike on the street unless one is a wuss and can't man up with the vibration. I had a Commando and chose to keep the P11 because it handles better with me on it. With the 4LS on the front it stops better than that 70's something Commando ever did. Also has a lower seat height and weighs about 60lbs less than a stock Commando. I had the Commando in the mid-'80's. No brake kits or other upgrades with a click of the mouse. The web wasn't up and running yet.

I bought the long forks purposely. I can adjust the way the bike handles and they can be used for clip-ons above the top clamp providing a less annoying go fast riding position. Of course, I would have to come up with rear sets to go with clip-ons, but I am personally done with that riding position so have never imagineered rearsets. I have no plans to ever shorten the sanction tubes. If I wanted them shorter, I would have bought them shorter. I'm funny that way.
Hi Schwany,
What 4LS front brake do you have?

Ed
 
Hi Schwany,
What 4LS front brake do you have?

Ed
The brake is a 230mm Cafe Racer Suspension (CRS) Ceriani 4LS copy. CRS are more or less out of business now. Others that cater to the Manx and Euro vintage race crowd carry similar brakes. Probably a lot of them for sale used too, but I've never checked. Don Pender designs, has manufactured, and sells larger diameter 4LS brakes. Shipping from his location is pricey, but the brakes he sells are nice looking. I went with CRS to save some money at the time. Penny wise pound foolish. I often fall victim to my inner miser.

Hydraulicly operated disc brakes are easier to modulate during braking. I can ride with the big 4LS safely, but it requires more feel for what is happening at the front tire patch on the road than using disc brakes. If I were doing it over again, I would have ordered the CRS forks I'm using with disc brake caliper mounts in case I got a bug up my butt to install disc brakes one day.
 
Now I'm starting to worry. I don't have any oil leaks since installing the TTi gearbox. Something is bound to blow catastrophically. ;)

I really like the 5 speed gearbox. Definitely not just a good choice for racing. Excellent ratios for the street with a 21/42 sprocket/ rear hub combo, and higher gearing in the primary.

By the way, Andy calls the TTi gearboxes crash boxes. Euro racers might know what that implies. I'd be guessing it has something to do with using less clutch.
 
When I first raced my Seeley 850, I used an ordinary Norton gearbox simply because that is what I had. The bike was far too slow everywhere, so I bought a Manx close ratio cluster. The bike became much faster and was excellent everywhere, except when getting away in a clutch start. When I bought the 6 speed close ratio TTI box, I knew I would probably never race again. I just bought it to complete the bike. It is a successful project. I know what it was capable of with the Manx cluster - unbeatable - and I am not bullshitting. I do not need to go back there and win by miles, however one day I might. Just to prove the bike. Some guys do not know how to use a gearbox. When I rode one of my mate's bikes, it went faster than it ever did when he rode it.
With my bike, horsepower is not very important- the Seeley comes out of corners much faster than most other bikes. I change gears while cranked over in corners and accelerating.
Ray Bann had bought the Seeley frame andfitted a 750 Laverda motor. Another guy rode it and caused me to crash. What he did when he crashed me, could never be done with a featherbed-framed bike. When I got the bike, I tried to get the Laverda motor - but failed - theoretically I own it. It took me a couple of years to get the rolling chassis with tanks I just made the engine plates and a few other bits.
 
When I first raced my Seeley 850, I used an ordinary Norton gearbox simply because that is what I had. The bike was far too slow everywhere, so I bought a Manx close ratio cluster. The bike became much faster and was excellent everywhere, except when getting away in a clutch start. When I bought the 6 speed close ratio TTI box, I knew I would probably never race again. I just bought it to complete the bike. It is a successful project. I know what it was capable of with the Manx cluster - unbeatable - and I am not bullshitting. I do not need to go back there and win by miles, however one day I might. Just to prove the bike. Some guys do not know how to use a gearbox. When I rode one of my mate's bikes, it went faster than it ever did when he rode it.
With my bike, horsepower is not very important- the Seeley comes out of corners much faster than most other bikes. I change gears while cranked over in corners and accelerating.
Ray Bann had bought the Seeley frame andfitted a 750 Laverda motor. Another guy rode it and caused me to crash. What he did when he crashed me, could never be done with a featherbed-framed bike. When I got the bike, I tried to get the Laverda motor - but failed - theoretically I own it. It took me a couple of years to get the rolling chassis with tanks I just made the engine plates and a few other bits.
I gotta ask... Who are are you? I'm not that familiar with legends on Nortons.

Unbeatable is very difficult to believe. There is always a faster gun unless you were racing out of shape fat guys every time you got on the track.
 
I didn't want to bring this up about my TTi 5 speed, but it is starting to get annoying.

Andy Molnar told me Bruce (is that right?) personally assembled my gearbox, so it should have been done right and checked out before it was shipped. Bruce is the man right? Well, things didn't work out perfectly with the gearbox I received. The kickstart locks up solid once in a while. It did this with the clutch not bolted up so has nothing to do with the engine or the clutch. The kick start is randomly getting hung up somewhere on the edge of a gear. I don't know a thing about the insides of a TTi gearbox, and because it is a race part there is no documentation for the gearbox from TTi. The last thing I want to do is pull the cover off a brand new gearbox and dig into it without knowing exactly where to look.

Andy says he's never heard of it happening. Well it is happening. He was supposed to get in touch with TTi to see what Bruce thinks. Haven't heard a word in a month. Andy is busy. Bruce is busy and it is a race part. Must be a case of You lays down your money and you takes your chances. No, I have not tried to contact Bruce directly. I figure he wouldn't respond anyway. He should respond to Andy, but so far nothing.

Thought I'd let people know that sometimes you don't get what you pay for. Boo hoo šŸ˜¢

Other than that, the gearbox works like it should.

I did forget to mention I can free the kick start up by putting it into gear and rocking it. Not particularly convenient at times.
 
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That sucks...

I do recall people stating that if a Primary chain/belt is too tight, there can be problems finding neutral... and seeing how you need to be in neutral to use the kick lever..... anyway, I'm just giving you some hearsay which might just be somthing to look at...and eliminate as the cause.
 
I did mention that is does it with the clutch belt off and the clutch not fully assembled.

It's not a finding neutral problem. Real obvious if it is not in neutral. Touch the kick start and the bike moves forward if in gear. If in neutral the kick start functions normally unless locked up. Belt is not too tight. Actually, the belt is nearly on the loose side for an AT10 belt. However, it does not slip on the pulleys, so the belt is all good.

I can be kicking in neutral several times and then bonk it locks up. Weirder yet I can kick it over a couple of times, then walk away to do something else and 50% of the time it is locked up when I come back. It may be possessed or possibly a weird assembly or part issue. What is hanging up in there might be obvious if I pulled it apart. I just don't want to do it yet.

At times finding neutral under way with a TTi gearbox is an art form. Sometimes it feels right and sometimes it feels like nothing happened but is in neutral. It is a light touch with a really difficult to feel click into neutral. TTi gearboxes don't shift like an AMC gearbox. Shift throw is very short and there is no detent feel for getting it right with a barrel shifter.

By the way, so far it is not a show stopper preventing me from starting and going for a ride. It's just not what I ever expected from an expensive gearbox assembled by the top guy there.

By the way, the TTi gearbox did this from day one after I got it installed. I never tried to move the kick start before it was installed. Top guy assembled it and all that. But I wasn't about to pull it out and ship it back to Molnar. Too much of a pain in the butt. I wanted to use it. Only reason I finally posted this is I was coming up to a light and the car in front of me stopped short. I quickly shifted into what I thought was neutral, but was still in second. No click in feel remember. Clutch stall getting going again. Embarrassing as hell and the kick starter locked up. I had to get out of the way because I was in the left hand turn lane. Fortunately, traffic wasn't that heavy and I was able to get off the road and in a parking area where I could free everything up. Anyway, I was breathing hard and not particularly happy.
 
Sorry to hear you are having trouble with the shifting of this gearbox.
I'm curious as to the weight of the Mg TTi as compared to the stock gearbox?

Glen
 
For those that have never used a TTi gearbox...

It takes time (or is taking me time) to get used to the feel of the soft downshift from second into neutral. I figure people will say they've never missed a downshift shift into neutral, but given how many motorcycles I've owned and how long I've been riding that is interweb BS. šŸ¤£

I'm not having shifting problems through the drive gears either up or down. Only issue with my gearbox is with the kickstart jamming up out of the blue once in a while. This only happens when the bike is sitting still and in neutral. By the way, I can clear the kickstart jamb up with excessive force at the kickstart lever, but it doesn't sound pretty, so I don't use excessive force to clear it.

The comments made in post #72 about the primary belt possibly being tight and causing shifting issues has nothing whatsoever to do with the kickstart issue.
 
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This sounded like a shifting problem
"At times finding neutral under way with a TTi gearbox is an art form"
And this didn't sound great either.
"I quickly shifted into what I thought was neutral, but was still in second. No click in feel remember"

Most of us need that positive click you get with the AMC.
My old Hondas from the 70s didn't have much if any positive click and they were tricky to live with.



Glen
 
This sounded like a shifting problem
"At times finding neutral under way with a TTi gearbox is an art form"
And this didn't sound great either.
"I quickly shifted into what I thought was neutral, but was still in second. No click in feel remember"

Most of us need that positive click you get with the AMC.
My old Hondas from the 70s didn't have much if any positive click and they were tricky to live with.



Glen
OK I misinterpreted your comment. I thought you were saying the gearbox was not shifting correctly. It's definitely my bad feel for it. I thought I had it all figured out, but not so much for panic stops. Oops

Getting into neutral with the AMC gearbox was great for the feel. That is the only thing I miss about it.
 
Did you happen to weigh the TTi box?
I couldn't find any weight info on their website.


Glen
I did read your question earlier, but don't have the weight numbers, and definitely no numbers for the magnesium shell version. I skipped that comparative weighing step entirely. I was going to do it, but totally forgot and started the imagineering install. It's been too long since handling the two gearboxes for me to even make a guess at which gearbox weighs more. Members here that race probably know the weights.

Yep the TTi website has close to zero tech specifications.
 
Did a short 60 miles yesterday. Getting the hang of finding neutral since I had to go through and stop at several traffic lights at a couple of sections during the ride. No false neutrals or missed shifts. 4th gear in a 5 speed turns out to be nice for keeping the engine sort of happy at around 55 mph in moderate yoyo traffic. 5th is as expected on the Hwy at 65 mph and up since it is 1:1 ratio like an AMC gearbox. I did not try to do the ton. Maybe next time.

Side note: Getting rid of the RGM clutch rod seal was the best thing I could have done for the belt clutch. It backed out twice and caused unhappiness before I removed it. Now I can actually ride the bike without worrying excessively about the clutch. The belt clutch I have is a noisy clutch though. I probably did something wrong, but it runs, so will see how it goes.
 
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