A TTi gearbox related query

Should the TTi gearbox have a loose 6mm ball bearing at the clutch push rod actuating lever end in the gearbox?

I may have basically destroyed part of the actuating lever mechanism. I do not have a ball bearing in that location. If it came with a loose ball bearing in the mainshaft bore, it fell out when I was working on making clearance changes to the gearbox shell on the bench. So I just put the push rod in there figuring it didn't need one. No documentation for the TTi gearbox is BS for $5K+US, but is what it is.

Anyway, what has happened twice is the push rod grinds a hole into the adjuster at the clutch pressure plate. Probably because the clutch push rod stops rotating when the push rod is releasing pressure on the diaphragm spring. Or my luck, I got a bum TTi gearbox.

Adjuster divot



The push rod is currently stuck inside the mainshaft. I'll be yanking it out soon. Edit: Nope

More Edit: That rod is probably mushroomed at the other end. Does not want to come out from the clutch side.

So much for holding the clutch in while in gear in 85 degree weather in heavy traffic. By the time I got home I had 3/4" of freeplay at the lever due to that divot in the adjuster, and the clutch wasn't fully releasing with the lever at the bar. Good times.

Sure hope I don't have to remove the 5 speed, and go back to the AMC 4 speed for the rest of the summer, because I do like the TTi 5 speed gear ratios. Had a nice 200 mile ride up until I hit a bunch of really clogged up traffic.

That’s the clutch adjuster right ?

If so, that’s not part of the TTI box. They don’t supply that or the pushrod with a new box.

Ref another thread, do you sit at lights with the clutch in?

If adjusted with correct free play, the only time the pushrod can act upon the adjuster in that fashion is then the clutch is in.

The clutch cable and adjuster needs to be adjusted like a Triumph (it’s a Triumph lifter), ie ensure zero take up on the cable so the lifter is in ‘home position’ then adjust the adjuster nut, then set the cable.

AFAIK there is no ball on the actuator side of the pushrod.

No gasket is used on the outer cover. And whatever glue they use makes it a bitch to remove that cover !

Fast Eddie said:

That’s the clutch adjuster right ?

If so, that’s not part of the TTI box. They don’t supply that or the pushrod with a new box.

Ref another thread, do you sit at lights with the clutch in?

If adjusted with correct free play, the only time the pushrod can act upon the adjuster in that fashion is then the clutch is in.

The clutch cable and adjuster needs to be adjusted like a Triumph (it’s a Triumph lifter), ie ensure zero take up on the cable so the lifter is in ‘home position’ then adjust the adjuster nut, then set the cable.

AFAIK there is no ball on the actuator side of the pushrod.

No gasket is used on the outer cover. And whatever glue they use makes it a bitch to remove that cover !

Click to expand...

Yes it is the RGM clutch adjuster.

1/4 to 5/16" of freeplay at the lever with Maguar levers. The rod is not riding on the adjuster full time. With the lever adjuster fully closed, the clutch adjuster on the clutch goes in until it touches the rod and is then backed out a full turn.

I edited the post and mentioned the holding in of the clutch. Really a shit idea. I don't as a general rule, but traffic was hell the day this all happened. Cars were yoyoing and stopping a lot.

Thanks a bunch for the no ball bearing and gasket answers.

There is no ball in the Triumph IPB. Even if a ball would be desirable (we have one rotating and one stationary part here), I don't think a ball will hold its position.
You need a ball or a radial needle roller bearing at the other end.

- Knut

Fast Eddie said:

That’s the clutch adjuster right ?

If so, that’s not part of the TTI box. They don’t supply that or the pushrod with a new box.

Ref another thread, do you sit at lights with the clutch in?

If adjusted with correct free play, the only time the pushrod can act upon the adjuster in that fashion is then the clutch is in.

The clutch cable and adjuster needs to be adjusted like a Triumph (it’s a Triumph lifter), ie ensure zero take up on the cable so the lifter is in ‘home position’ then adjust the adjuster nut, then set the cable.

AFAIK there is no ball on the actuator side of the pushrod.

No gasket is used on the outer cover. And whatever glue they use makes it a bitch to remove that cover !

Click to expand...

ball/ramp lifter? If so, what's the recommended lever pivot distance? on my triumph and bsa with that setup I have to use a 7/8 lever, the 1-1/8 lever will cause overlift on the ramp mechanism

From just the amount of wear on the adjuster, I would bet the rod had some tension on it while you were riding around with the clutch was disengaged. You would have had to do a lot of holding of the clutch in to produce that much wear so quickly due to only pressure when using the clutch... At least that's what I think. You are not having much of an easy time with your upgrade, which is something that I'm pretty familiar with....

I got the clutch push rod out using a hand drill running in reverse and keeping pull tension on the drill. The rod is mushroomed at the other end. I probably didn't get it hardened enough.

o0norton0o said:

From just the amount of wear on the adjuster, I would bet the rod had some tension on it while you were riding around with the clutch was disengaged. You would have had to do a lot of holding of the clutch in to produce that much wear so quickly due to only pressure when using the clutch... At least that's what I think. You are not having much of an easy time with your upgrade, which is something that I'm pretty familiar with....

Click to expand...

85-90 degree air temp on Hwy 9 behind a long line of cars. I was holding the clutch in way more than I like. I put 350 miles on the bike last week. 200 miles Friday and previously 150 miles on Monday. I got stuck on Hwy 5 doing the same damn thing for about 3 miles Monday.

I'm going to order some 6mm drill rod tomorrow and make a couple of new rods and harden the ends with a torch and give them an oil quench. I'll leave the torch on them longer.

I do think that clutch rod adjuster at the diaphragm spring is a bit soft, but maybe it is supposed to be. I am not knowing.

And yes it's been interesting. Win some lose some. I'll make it work eventually.

I am going to try a looser clutch push rod set up strategy. The cup the clutch rod adjuster is in moves a lot and I may not be feeling it just right during setup.

BTW, if I wanted easy, I'd restore a Commando. he he

I don't do traffic... I have an ammeter and when I am idling along in traffic the pointer is pointed into the negative, so the battery is slowly draining unless I am holding it at 2000 rpms when the pointer crosses into the positive charging zone. It's something I occasionally glance at as I ride. In fact yesterday I looked at it as I was cruising along in 4th and it was pointing into the negative,.... so I turned around and went home to find that yet again, the charging wires had dropped into the final chain and the chain cut the same wire it cut last time it happened

The good part of my dilemma was that I opened the primary to see if the charging issue was inside it, and the belt was too tight so I corrected that before it caused yet another issue. Thankfully, I have one of those easy to work on commando bikes...

Commandos are just as big a chore, there are more parts that are supposed to go together available for them though. That's what kind of makes it easier.

I know it's not a picnic every time I get on the old thing I ride.

I've got a good up in smoke story related to wires through the primary. I run my alternator wires through a different hole than standard and wind them around the center bolt through the primary so I have some slack to disconnect the wire from the outer primary where the stator lives. The two case halves mate against each other around that bolt. I pinched one of the alternator wires between the case halves and I have a lithium battery. Started the bike and that wire went poof got red hot and half the battery melted before I could kill the engine. I didn't leave the garage that day. The garage smelled like burnt electronics for a week after that. Oops

Schwany said:

Commandos are just as big a chore, there are more parts that are supposed to go together available for them though. That's what kind of makes it easier.

I know it's not a picnic every time I get on the old thing I ride.

I've got a good up in smoke story related to wires through the primary. I run my alternator wires through a different hole than standard and wind them around the center bolt through the primary so I have some slack to disconnect the wire from the outer primary where the stator lives. The two case halves mate against each other around that bolt. I pinched one of the alternator wires between the case halves and I have a lithium battery. Started the bike and that wire went poof got red hot and half the battery melted before I could kill the engine. I didn't leave the garage that day. The garage smelled like burnt electronics for a week after that. Oops

Click to expand...

That story alone is enough to put me off lithium batteries...

I assume you are buying another clutch adjuster bolt or maybe there's enough free threads to just cut it down past the dimple? I might be able to turn a center hole in the damaged bolt and plug it with a piece of steel if a replacement bolt isn't easily had... I'm out in Preston..... Btw, I thought I saw you ride by me the other day. Your fuel tank is pretty distinctive... ??? You waved, so I figured that was you....

That adjuster screw with lock nut on it has enough material left to shorten it one more time. This will be the second time I've done it. Last time was caused by the RGM clutch rod seal backing out. The divot pattern was a little different that time. What bugs me about the current divot and wear patterns I've seen in the past is they are not centered on the adjuster screw. That doesn't happen with the multi-spring clutches I've used. Multi-spring clutches are not loosie goosie where the adjuster is. I could practice welding on that adjuster screw next time. That would really ruin it. I'm not about to give RGM $30 for that screw. His minimum shipping rate is $20. I could use a new pressure plate though, so I might be able to get a new screw, so to speak.

Yeah, the P11 is a bright Candy Apple Red. Basically an attractive nuisance. People usually get all nostalgic when it is parked at a gas station. Seems everybody had an uncle that flat tracked.

I do the hand down for people on motorcycles regardless of what they are riding. I don't remember seeing a Norton.

Preston is probably a little warm today. Nice part of the state. I don't know if my Norton is really fun enough to ride at the speeds required to go over HWY 90. I think the slow lane is doing 80 mph out there.

Nothing wrong with a lithium battery in my view. However, they don't tolerate dead shorts well. I still have a AntiGravity Lithium iron battery in the P11. Works great for me, but I did fix the wiring from the stator so I can't pinch one of the wires between the cases. BTW, I'm still using that stator. The short only burned the wire between the regulator and the pinch, and did not hurt the stator. Stranger things.

My clutch operating mechanism has driven me mad over time. I actually use a 33mm fulcrum Domino dog leg lever to get enough lift, and to suit my small hands. I needed to use that to overcome drag, and personally I don't see how you can really get too much lift. Just don't pull the lever back to the bar if you think there is too much! I have used 25/28/33mm lever fulcrums.

But, I do know the point that FE is making applies. TTi supply the box, with a Triumph actuating mechanism. You supply the rest. In my case a Norman White clutch and home made rod.

Issues come from the combination of parts.

TTi know this, and that their market is usually knowledgeable enough to build motorcycles from scratch.

Doesn't forgive the lack of documentation, but if they did write it up, there would be a fair amount of disclaimer material based on your parts combinations.

In the end, it looks like it came down to the part you had most control of, and TTi had least control of, the rod!

My operating rod was set up by Norman when he made and fitted the clutch, he chose 2 part with a ball in the middle of them! This worked fine for the first season of racing with the bike, lots of races and starts. Second season I started to experience problems I initially tied to worn balls on the Triumph part.

I have since replaced the actuator and the rod set up. With a single rod when I was trying to regain sufficient lift. There was a marginal improvement, which could have been fogged with a lever change at the same time. I have also changed plates that were at the wear limit, and that had an effect too. (Remember mine is a race bike, so there are only a couple of occasions and little accumulative time I hold the clutch lever to the bar)

I know another rod issue is possible: using 1/4" stock versus 6mm! Clearly not your problem source, but how did you know to use 6mm? Me, I sourced in the UK where 6mm is easier to get than 1/4".

May be you can replace your damaged adjuster bolt with one 1/2 -20 UNF bolt in 12/9 grade , ok it will need to be cut , and you will have an hexagon head , but ...

I use 2 rods, about equal length and a 6mm ball bearing in between. Had that practice since 1967 when a friend told me. Common race practice. 6mm silver steel (drill rod in US) perfectly fine if ends hardened. Hardening the whole rod might bend it. Of course ends must be perfectly flat. A thin coat of moly grease does no harm.
To me it sounds that you might use wrong method for adjuster screw and lever adjuster.
Early problem I had with the TTI was that centre nut loosened resulting in clutch not working. Lever to handle bar. Recommended nut torque not enough. Tightened till mouth tasted s**t.
Don't know what material in the adjuster screw. If case hardened shortening seems a bad idea.
I'm not fond of using the clutch. Though it takes me a bit more time finding neutral on the TTI than on an AMC box. Somewhat compensated by upshifting without clutch.
By the way, is a rod seal really necessary?

The split pushrod with ball bearing is standard on Ducati bevels, except they use one ball and 4 rollers!

SteveA said:

I know another rod issue is possible: using 1/4" stock versus 6mm! Clearly not your problem source, but how did you know to use 6mm? Me, I sourced in the UK where 6mm is easier to get than 1/4".

Click to expand...

Molnar said 275mm length 6mm silver steel rod. It's what is called drill rod over here.

I may start throwing my P11 in the back of my El Camino and driving up to where I can unload it and begin riding without stop lights and HWY backups. Then again, I might sell it and relax for a few years.

marinatlas said:

May be you can replace your damaged adjuster bolt with one 1/2 -20 UNF bolt in 12/9 grade , ok it will need to be cut , and you will have an hexagon head , but ...

Click to expand...

I'll look into that. Making the hex head into a flat blade screw head wouldn't be difficult. Right up my barn yard imagineering alley.

Too much lever, too much clutch use, and too much stop and go traffic is my conclusion. The street is tough on the parts I'm using. I might do a two-piece clutch rod arrangement with ball bearing in the center for grins. It won't help though if I have too much lever. I really don't want to get new levers. Too bad so sad.

Thanks for the thoughts.

No need for new levers.

Lots of different types of these, even possible to make your own. All you’re doing is reducing the amount of movement via leverage, thereby creating an easier pull by having less lift at the clutch end for any given pull at the lever end…

My guess is that the split rod, ball or roller fix came in late fifties when serious racers fitted fairings. Gearing for the higher top speed made first gear higher. Making it necessary to slip clutch in the hairpins.
Then came the 5-speed gearboxes adding a lower first gear. The 4 higher gears was already close ratio to match the short usable power band.
The 5-speed TTI has good gear spacing, not too high rev drop going from first to second and gradually less drop shifting up. Especially with the low first option. To handle increasing air resistance. 6-speed TTI a bit more random.

Fast Eddie said:

No need for new levers.

Lots of different types of these, even possible to make your own. All you’re doing is reducing the amount of movement via leverage, thereby creating an easier pull by having less lift at the clutch end for any given pull at the lever end…

Click to expand...

I forgot those existed. Thanks for the reminder.

More slop at the lever is going to be my initial change. That and cutting two Commando clutch push rods to make up 275mm of length with a 6mm ball bearing in the middle. I have the spare Commando push rods sitting in a drawer. Might as well put them to use.