Norton commando 850 huge mistake (2013)

tonyd · Dec 30, 2013

Well I imagine this story will amuse many . Having a 70 750 and a 75 850, I thought I would put in two anti wet sumping valves. The 750 I put in the right way, but the 850 for some reason I cannot fathom I put in back to front !!.
The engine on its first run seized. I was stumped on why it had happened until I noticed the valve. I have started to strip the bike down, but I was wondering what things I should expect to find and what to look out for. I am going to use this as an excuse to do a frame up restoration that is unless i do something else bloody stupid.

bwolfie · Dec 30, 2013

One of the many reasons these valves are bad. They are unneeded. Wetsumping is just part of the experience.

Rohan · Dec 30, 2013

Sorry to hear of your sad tale.
A warning to others...
And as bwolfie says, all part of the experience.

Probably the big ends are going to be welded to the crank, or the pistons a little melted to the bore.
Unless really bad, probably only need a wallet-ectomy to be fixed. !
(Didn't it make some funny noises along the way ?)
Good luck, and remember - old bikes are (meant to be) fun !

tonyd · Dec 30, 2013

I was riding the 750 and gazing at the 850 whilst my mate was on it, so at least I have that as an excuse.
Your right it will just cost alot.

grandpaul · Dec 30, 2013

I'll bet your friend was a bit sheepish!

Hobot · Dec 30, 2013

As reviewed above likely just rod shells and bore and ring and maybe piston renewal and good to go. Head don't really need much oil and likely the crank bearings didn't get too hot and dry to get hurt either. AMR pump mod might be on list to do too. Ugh, what a screw up to try to put out of mind.

Snorton74 · Dec 30, 2013

bwolfie said:
One of the many reasons these valves are bad. They are unneeded. Wetsumping is just part of the experience.

+10. Maybe spring for one of Jim's breathers since you're going to have it apart. It'll help evacuate the oil when it wet sumps again.

concours · Dec 31, 2013

Hi Tony, welcome. Rod bearings, crank journals, rebore OS. How long total time with no oil?

Fast Eddie · Dec 31, 2013

tonyd said:
Well I imagine this story will amuse many . Having a 70 750 and a 75 850, I thought I would put in two anti wet sumping valves. The 750 I put in the right way, but the 850 for some reason I cannot fathom I put in back to front !!.
The engine on its first run seized. I was stumped on why it had happened until I noticed the valve. I have started to strip the bike down, but I was wondering what things I should expect to find and what to look out for. I am going to use this as an excuse to do a frame up restoration that is unless i do something else bloody stupid.

My commiserations Tony, that is bad luck. Such possible miss-haps are why I prefer to 'live with' the wet sumping.

Look on the bright side though... its an excuse to improve things whilst you're in there!

FastFred · Dec 31, 2013

Sory to hear that. Take the opportunity to waste some money on go faster goodies while it's in bits to justify the strip down..

Guido · Dec 31, 2013

Let me get this straight, you let someone else ride one of your vintage collectible bikes?????
I feel for ya dude.
Nows time to get down and intimate with the workings of a Norton.
And like FastFred said.

click · Dec 31, 2013

Sorry to hear about your FUBAR or TARFU (never sure which one applies!!)

When I purchased my 75 850 I gave it to SRM in the UK to give it the once over & service the bike. It had an oil return valve fitted, I got a call from them saying they would not service the bike & give it back to me with the valve still fitted and recommended that they remove the valve during the service, I took their advice!

I got one of Jim C's CC breathers which I hope will allow the oil in the CC to get back to the oil tank much quicker removing the need for me to do the CC drain shuffle each time I want to ride the bike (I tend to have large gaps between my use of the Norton, I know shame on me!)

A bit of time & some money will sort everything out :roll: Hopefully all the major stuff is OK after you have a look inside!

At least the 750 is still OK :mrgreen:

1up3down · Dec 31, 2013

what a wonderful time and excuse to put in some JS lightweight pistons, little hotter cam, and increase the compression a bit, put in new valves, guides, and springs, why not you have it all apart anyway

it costs so little more to go first class, and this is still cheaper than a psychiatrist or cocaine

worntorn · Dec 31, 2013

Sorry to hear about this, I doubt anyone here will find your troubles amusing, especially since a Norton was injured!
I think the manual valves with safety, as in ignition cutoff, are OK , although it is always possible that the switch could malfunction and allow starting without opening of the valve.

You are not alone with this type of acccident. A good friend has a manual valve with no ignition cutout on his Matchless. He has made a very deliberate habit of turning the oil return valve on as part of the startup procedure. This worked perfectly fo several years until one day he had a row with his wife and decided to go for a ride to calm down. Of course he forgot all about turning the oil valve on and locked the bike solid after a few miles.

Perhaps a wet sump, some oil on the floor and the occasional blown main seal are part of owning a Norton.

I do have a plan for a better safety type manual valve, parts are in the post. Will put info on the forum if it works out.

Glen

850cmndo · Dec 31, 2013

So exactly which valve did you have? I tried the one with the sight glass. That was a mistake. Only lost a piston and rings. Bottom end and the rest spec'd out ok so I suspect I dodged the BIG bullet. Expensive none the less.

swooshdave · Dec 31, 2013

Whenever you make any changes to the oil delivery system you should pull the seat and watch the oil return.

850cmndo · Dec 31, 2013

Agreed. However this bit me some time after installing. Just wondering..

pete.v · Dec 31, 2013

850cmndo said:
So exactly which valve did you have? I tried the one with the sight glass. That was a mistake. Only lost a piston and rings. Bottom end and the rest spec'd out ok so I suspect I dodged the BIG bullet. Expensive none the less.

Makes no difference if put in backward. To say "sorry for the bad luck" is being a little too kind for luck had nothing to do with it, unless you figure he had a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

If properly applied and the machanical device failed, then bad luck. But, if trusting a machanical device not to fail, then again, you only have yourself to blame.

I have a ball valve and unless I forget to turn it on, then machanical failure is not part of the equation. I do not leave my gas on, nor the ignition key, nor start in any other gear but neutral. Over the last 3 or so years, this has been a solid routine.

If I fail then I truly have only myself to blame and deserve what ever consequences I get. All I need is a slight freudian slip and I'm on the phone to JS.

worntorn · Dec 31, 2013

pete.v said:
850cmndo said:

Makes no difference if put in backward. To say "sorry for the bad luck" is being a little too kind for luck had nothing to do with it, unless you figure he had a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

If properly applied and the machanical device failed, then bad luck. But, if trusting a machanical device not to fail, then again, you only have yourself to blame.

.

Click to expand...

Don't we trust a whole series of mechanical devices "to not fail" every time we ride a motorcycle, drive a car, get on a bus or take a trip in an airplane?
A motorcycle is collection of mechanical devices that we hope will work in proper unison and not fail when we are using them. Or as some have said of old bikes," a collection of parts flying together in loose formation"

Glen

850cmndo · Dec 31, 2013

pete.v said:
850cmndo said:

So exactly which valve did you have? I tried the one with the sight glass. That was a mistake. Only lost a piston and rings. Bottom end and the rest spec'd out ok so I suspect I dodged the BIG bullet. Expensive none the less.

Click to expand...

Makes no difference if put in backward. To say "sorry for the bad luck" is being a little too kind for luck had nothing to do with it, unless you figure he had a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

If properly applied and the machanical device failed, then bad luck. But, if trusting a machanical device not to fail, then again, you only have yourself to blame.

I have a ball valve and unless I forget to turn it on, then machanical failure is not part of the equation. I do not leave my gas on, nor the ignition key, nor start in any other gear but neutral. Over the last 3 or so years, this has been a solid routine.

If I fail then I truly have only myself to blame and deserve what ever consequences I get. All I need is a slight freudian slip and I'm on the phone to JS.

And people ask me why I dumped Facebook....This forum will be next.

Norton commando 850 huge mistake (2013)

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