Norton commando 850 huge mistake (2013)

pete.v said:

850cmndo said:

So exactly which valve did you have? I tried the one with the sight glass. That was a mistake. Only lost a piston and rings. Bottom end and the rest spec'd out ok so I suspect I dodged the BIG bullet. Expensive none the less.

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Makes no difference if put in backward. To say "sorry for the bad luck" is being a little too kind for luck had nothing to do with it, unless you figure he had a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

If properly applied and the machanical device failed, then bad luck. But, if trusting a machanical device not to fail, then again, you only have yourself to blame.

I have a ball valve and unless I forget to turn it on, then machanical failure is not part of the equation. I do not leave my gas on, nor the ignition key, nor start in any other gear but neutral. Over the last 3 or so years, this has been a solid routine.

If I fail then I truly have only myself to blame and deserve what ever consequences I get. All I need is a slight freudian slip and I'm on the phone to JS.

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tonyd said:

pete.v said:

850cmndo said:

So exactly which valve did you have? I tried the one with the sight glass. That was a mistake. Only lost a piston and rings. Bottom end and the rest spec'd out ok so I suspect I dodged the BIG bullet. Expensive none the less.

Click to expand...

Makes no difference if put in backward. To say "sorry for the bad luck" is being a little too kind for luck had nothing to do with it, unless you figure he had a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

If properly applied and the machanical device failed, then bad luck. But, if trusting a machanical device not to fail, then again, you only have yourself to blame.

I have a ball valve and unless I forget to turn it on, then machanical failure is not part of the equation. I do not leave my gas on, nor the ignition key, nor start in any other gear but neutral. Over the last 3 or so years, this has been a solid routine.

If I fail then I truly have only myself to blame and deserve what ever consequences I get. All I need is a slight freudian slip and I'm on the phone to JS.

Click to expand...

Hmm I thought this forum was to good to be true, I took the entire blame for a stupid mistake which will cost me dearly, do I really need your misspelled ramble.
Thank you to everyone else who had something helpful to add. I doubt it will be my last mistake.

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tonyd said:

pete.v said:

850cmndo said:

So exactly which valve did you have? I tried the one with the sight glass. That was a mistake. Only lost a piston and rings. Bottom end and the rest spec'd out ok so I suspect I dodged the BIG bullet. Expensive none the less.

Click to expand...

Makes no difference if put in backward. To say "sorry for the bad luck" is being a little too kind for luck had nothing to do with it, unless you figure he had a 50/50 chance of getting it right.

If properly applied and the machanical device failed, then bad luck. But, if trusting a machanical device not to fail, then again, you only have yourself to blame.

I have a ball valve and unless I forget to turn it on, then machanical failure is not part of the equation. I do not leave my gas on, nor the ignition key, nor start in any other gear but neutral. Over the last 3 or so years, this has been a solid routine.

If I fail then I truly have only myself to blame and deserve what ever consequences I get. All I need is a slight freudian slip and I'm on the phone to JS.

Click to expand...

Hmm I thought this forum was to good to be true, I took the entire blame for a stupid mistake which will cost me dearly, do I really need your misspelled ramble.
Thank you to everyone else who had something helpful to add. I doubt it will be my last mistake.

Click to expand...

1up3down said:

what a wonderful time and excuse to put in some JS lightweight pistons, little hotter cam, and increase the compression a bit, put in new valves, guides, and springs, why not you have it all apart anyway, it costs so little more to go first class, and this is still cheaper than a psychiatrist or cocaine

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850cmndo said:

And people ask me why I dumped Facebook....This forum will be next.

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tonyd said:

Hmm I thought this forum was to good to be true, I took the entire blame for a stupid mistake which will cost me dearly, do I really need your misspelled ramble.
Thank you to everyone else who had something helpful to add. I doubt it will be my last mistake.

Click to expand...

cjandme said:

1up3down said:

what a wonderful time and excuse to put in some JS lightweight pistons, little hotter cam, and increase the compression a bit, put in new valves, guides, and springs, why not you have it all apart anyway, it costs so little more to go first class, and this is still cheaper than a psychiatrist or cocaine

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My thoughts (almost) exactly 1up3down :^)

850cmndo said:

And people ask me why I dumped Facebook....This forum will be next.

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Well okay then 850cmdo, but it'll be your loss.

tonyd said:

Hmm I thought this forum was to good to be true, I took the entire blame for a stupid mistake which will cost me dearly, do I really need your misspelled ramble.
Thank you to everyone else who had something helpful to add. I doubt it will be my last mistake.

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Seems a bit thin skinned tonyd, I also thought this forum was too good to be true when I first found it (but I believe it is honestly a good forum) w/- lots of good info and help from lots of good folks. CJ

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bwolfie said:

One of the many reasons these valves are bad. They are unneeded. Wetsumping is just part of the experience.

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acotrel said:

bwolfie said:

One of the many reasons these valves are bad. They are unneeded. Wetsumping is just part of the experience.

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That's OK, however I usually disconnect the feed pipe and stuff a bolt up it and retighten the clamp, - reconnect it before starting the motor. Some smart aleck made up a rule for historic racing bikes that all the oil lines must have permanent fittings - no hose clamps. I still haven't thought up the answer to that idiocy. I might have to stand and fight.

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nortonspeed said:

acotrel said:

bwolfie said:

One of the many reasons these valves are bad. They are unneeded. Wetsumping is just part of the experience.

Click to expand...

That's OK, however I usually disconnect the feed pipe and stuff a bolt up it and retighten the clamp, - reconnect it before starting the motor. Some smart aleck made up a rule for historic racing bikes that all the oil lines must have permanent fittings - no hose clamps. I still haven't thought up the answer to that idiocy. I might have to stand and fight.

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Not quite an OK experience starting up your engine and crankcases brimfull with oil. Instead of using an inline valve try this oil tank valve. Easy to fit (can not be fitted wrong way around) and no oil pressure drop like most inline type valves: http://www.hollandnortonworks.eu/?lang=EN&page=10 :idea:

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nortonspeed said:

acotrel said:

bwolfie said:

One of the many reasons these valves are bad. They are unneeded. Wetsumping is just part of the experience.

Click to expand...

That's OK, however I usually disconnect the feed pipe and stuff a bolt up it and retighten the clamp, - reconnect it before starting the motor. Some smart aleck made up a rule for historic racing bikes that all the oil lines must have permanent fittings - no hose clamps. I still haven't thought up the answer to that idiocy. I might have to stand and fight.

Click to expand...

Not quite an OK experience starting up your engine and crankcases brimfull with oil. Instead of using an inline valve try this oil tank valve. Easy to fit (can not be fitted wrong way around) and no oil pressure drop like most inline type valves: http://www.hollandnortonworks.eu/?lang=EN&page=10 :idea:

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Fast Eddie said:

I was going to buy this to at least test it out but it's so hard to buy things from Holland Norton Works. They don't accept Paypal or credit cards.... you have to send an international bank transfer??. No thank you.

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Johnnymac said:

Fast Eddie said:

I was going to buy this to at least test it out but it's so hard to buy things from Holland Norton Works. They don't accept Paypal or credit cards.... you have to send an international bank transfer??. No thank you.

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It is exactly the same part sold by Matt at CNW isn't it?
He is a very helpful chap and buying stuff from him is SO easy, to bloody easy really...!

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click said:

Do you know how this valves works? Have you fitted one on your Norton?Thanks in advance

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nortonspeed said:

click said:

Do you know how this valves works? Have you fitted one on your Norton?Thanks in advance

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Yes I have fitted this valve on both my Commando's as I mentioned in another topic:

Re: Norton Anti Drain Check Valve (for engines that Wet Sump
by nortonspeed » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:02 am
Some pretty wild stories go around about anti wet sump valves. Any Norton will wet sump, depending the condition of your oil pump it will go slow or fast. Fitting an anti wet sump valve does not have to result in disaster. If you decide to fit an automatic valve make sure your oil pump is in good condition (40 to 60 psi hot). The problem of most spring loaded valves is that the spring is loaded way too strong. The valve should have a spring load as light as possible to minimize resistance but just strong enough to stop the oil sumping. I have tested several valves over the years on my Commando and the valve that comes closest to this specification is the oil tank valve as also mentioned by Vidar and Anglophile earlier in this thread. No oil pressure drop at any rpm. I have used this valve now for over 30.000 mls (I also have fitted a pressure gauge) and will continue to use it until someone comes up with an even better one.

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pete.v said:

Here is a quote from SRM.

"We frequently get asked the question about wet sumping.

We DO NOT recommend fitting any such non return valves on the feed side of the pump as gear pumps are not designed to suck with no oil in the body. This can result in instant engine failure."

YIKES!

I think the point is is that ANY inline valve on the suction side will leave your pump to start dry, and without capable suction, all of these units are detrimental whether they are in excellant working condition and/or any particular design. The best intention is not without eminant disaster.

The only difference with a ball valve and associated habits, when the ball valve is opened oil will flow oil to the before starting. Not so with the others.

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