New Member w/Gardengate Nortons

worntorn said:
Perhaps it was named for its handling characteristics. The famous Featherbed gots it name because it was a very comfortable frame, like riding a featherbed with wheels.
Im guessing that riding the earlier framed bike is like riding a Garden Gate with wheels.
SNIP!
Norton gained its reputation for good handling based on these "garden gate" frames, before the Featherbed. On a swinging arm version (ES2) I could out perform a mate on his Honda 550 around bends. He would catch me on the straight of course. Its true they were heavy, but the later welded frames pared the weight a bit. Even if not to Featherbed standards, these rigid and swing arm frames offered good handling. I`ve never tried a plunger model though.
Rick
 
rickloader said:
I`ve never tried a plunger model though.

Rather strong willed in the steering for road use at road speeds - nothing that a Commando rider wouldn't be used to though. Choppy surfaces can have the back wheel doing a 'patter' - but less violently than some rigid framed bikes of the time, the plunger suspension at least had a little give in it...

The factory plunger framed race bikes raced at some races/courses with little hydraulic dampers fitted to the back axle, if you look closely at some of the old race pics. Otherwise, the plunger units are capable of acting quite independently, and the rear wheel can steer almost as much as the front - the heavy axle fitted to plunger rear wheels helps curb this habit, mostly. Jimmy Guthrie was killed prewar in the German GP before the need for the heavy one piece axle was appreciated though.

Also, the term "Roadholder" for the front forks came from Nortons prewar girder forks (based on the Webb pattern). Through modern eyes, how anything largely undamped that resembled a pogo stick in action was the 'Worlds Best Roadholder' the others must have been pretty awful ? All relative, of course.
 
rickloader said:
Norton gained its reputation for good handling based on these "garden gate" frames, before the Featherbed.

Nortons actually gained much of their racing fame with rigid framed bikes - the plunger ones were somewhat heavier, and didn't win roadraces nearly as often or so dominantly, when you look closely at results.?
 
Hi Lurkingclass, amazing find, 3 fantastic bikes and I'd be very interested in seeing your progress with them. The footrests you bought are excellent, very similar to Inter clubman spec footrests that fix to the extra rear position on the Inter plunger frame. Although I'm quite sure only the kickstart side foot rest pivots up to allow you to kick start the bike. These had the pedal type foot rest as well.

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons


This is a friend of mine's 1950 Clubman Inter, he's owned it since 1959 when he was 18 and it's gone through a few changes over the yaers, from race to road spec them back again. He keeps promising I can have it off him, but changes his mind because he's had it for so long and can't let it go :?
I eventually bought a DOHC long stroke Featherbed Manx which has the same top end of the engine as your other bike. Have you checked these bikes with the NOC factory records? I would be very interested to know more :)

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons
 
Very cool! Let's see some more pics of that 1950 Inter! Not much progress on my Inter, but I'll post pics as soon as I get started. The Daytona Manx and ES2 have found new homes.
 
Ah ok, I'll post some more pics for you of it. I would have had to keep the Daytona Manx, it must be a very rare bike. To be honest I would struggle to part with any of them :) I look farward to seeing some more pics as you progress.

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons

New Member w/Gardengate Nortons


Like I said, my mate's owned the bike since about 1959 when he was 18, it was rough and had been raced. I checked with the NOC records and the bike was delivered to a bike shop in Worcester, England in May 1950. It is a genuine Clubman as stated on the factory records, but as my mate was 18 things got changed and thrown away. He told me the original bolt through tank was dented and looked rough so he throw it away :cry: he then had a blue fibreglass tank and fairing on it during the 60's which looked more modern at the time. He said the previous owner had tried to make it look like a Manx so he was changing it back :cry: What he didn't realise was his bike was meant to look like that. Admittedly, some of the alterations on the bike when he got it, were owner done and not factory. It had a swept back exhaust and a large air scoop on the front brake ( I have both of them in my shed to save them being thrown away) My mate is no mechanic, he just rides them and in the 80's he wanted to restore it and used some plunger ES2 parts to do it. When he'd done it, he'd done it to road spec and not Clubman. Hence the chrome road spec tank. 1950 was the year there was a lack nickel or something needed to plate chrome, so less chrome on these Norton's. Hence the wheels have always been silver not chrome and it should have a silver tank. He decided he didn't like it in road trim and put the drop bars etc back on. The seat is what has always been on the bike from when he bought it. He had it recovered and put it back on. He tried a sprung seat and didn't like it as the one on the bike is more comfortable with the turn up at the back. It has the correct very rare footrests as I showed you before, and original rev counted housing for the clock to sit in. I thought this was just the clock mounted on a bracket, but it is fully enclosed. Ally head and barrels as fitted to the Clubman and not the road version (although I did find out that exported Inter's, mainly to USA were given the ally head and barrels instead of cast Iron) The 21" front wheel has an unusual vented disc around the wheel, which has been laced in when the wheel was built. I guessing this was done by the previous owner and not a factory item. A plain SLS brake plate is in place of the scooped one now.
When he was going to sell it to me, I went round and got the bike started, as it hadn't run for over 5 years. It sounded lovely as he's cut the silencer open and taken out the baffles, then welded it back together :) Although the external valves do clatter, especially with the ally head and barrels. I doubt he will get it back on the road but he can't part with it. He has a modern Jap bike to thrash around on but loves his Norton :)
 
Very nice.
Odd looking front brake ?
The nickel shortage didn't appear until 1951, when there was an official gov't proclamation that chrome use had to be cut by xx%, varying by industry - motorcycles were something like 65% or was it 70% (?). (that allowed handlebars and exhausts and small bits )

Another daytona manx has appeared.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DAYTONA- ... 0543#v4-40
 
DonOR said:

God, I hope he doesn't race that thing in a Davida helmet just because they sponsor him!

Interesting article. I like the Reference to 'Steptoe and Son'. That show's rights were bought by Norman Lear and re-created in the US as 'Sanford and Son'
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

Do the Chinese make 'pudding basin' helmets these days ?
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

acotrel said:
Do the Chinese make 'pudding basin' helmets these days ?

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with an OHC Norton, but you might want to try to google instead.
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

Lurkingclass said:
I' just thought I'd mention that I'm strongly considering selling my 1952 International Clubman. I'm not dead set on a price, but I'm open to fair offers or input from any Norton experts out there as to a realistic price. I was going to list it on ebay, but I figured I would post it here and on Britbike first.


*Note: This bike came from the same collection as the ex-Billy Mathews 1950 Daytona-winning Works Manx (sold) so I would be very interested to see what the Norton Factory Dispatch records have to say about this special bike. quote]

Perhaps if you could give us the chassis number, it may be possible to trace from the factory archives when and who the machine was first sold to, if they still exists.
If you feel uncomfortable printing your chassis number on the internet, pm me and I will try to get in touch with the NOC to find out where the factory archives are kept.
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

No need to enquire this - the NOC hold the factory records, and for a fee will look them up for members.
The VMCC, and also Andover Norton, and others, hold microfiche copies of them.
The writing /details are often near illegible though, so an enquiry can produce somewhat uncertain details.
Some of the details also seem to be recorded in a type of shorthand, and its anyones guess what some of the abbrev's are...
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

Rohan said:
No need to enquire this - the NOC hold the factory records, and for a fee will look them up for members.
The VMCC, and also Andover Norton, and others, hold microfiche copies of them.
The writing /details are often near illegible though, so an enquiry can produce somewhat uncertain details.
Some of the details also seem to be recorded in a type of shorthand, and its anyones guess what some of the abbrev's are...

As I understand it, the NOC is nearly finished transcribing the bulk of the factory records into an Excel file. I transcribed a month's worth during this project - about 1200 machines, and these records were written down by hand into a ledger. It took a year, in my spare time, and careful scanning of these photocopies with a magnifying glass. One small batch of machines took a week to decipher - I had no idea there was a town in England called Sleightholme, so was quite a challenge to decipher that 6 bikes were built for the Sleightholme Constabulary (all model 19 with magdyno, foot shift, leg shields, pillion seat and speedometer).
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

So how would one go about having the NOC look up a motor/frame number? I paid the fees and joined last year when I found the Nortons, and sent an email requesting the service, and never got a reply. Any ideas?
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

You need to make contact with the "Machine Dating Officer".
Persistence helps ?
Bear in mind these positions are voluntary, and apparently this service was being swamped.
There is some basic info service that is free, but this may no longer be the case.
There is a link somewhere on the website - or enquire of the webmaster ?
 
Re: New Member w/Gardengate Nortons (Inter for sale)

Rohan said:
No need to enquire this - the NOC hold the factory records,

The NOC does not hold the factory records, they have a copy of them. The originals used to be at the Science Museum, who ended up giving them to the Antique Motorcycle Club. At one point the Science Museum offered copies of the Norton records to whoever wanted to pay a fee to have them do so, there were several takers on this offer.

Besides the NOC I know two other individuals with copies. Hilariously I have given the same serial number to all three and received three different interpretations of what the records said of the bike! So I will take what the NOC has done with a grain of salt. Those "interpreting" the factory records will do no better a job than they do with anything else in their daily lives, some of them will do a great job, and some of them will do a terrible job. The only way I would feel good about getting information from factory records is if I were to look at them myself, I am not interested in what anyone else thinks is there.

LurkingClass, when you have sold your last Norton maybe you could start a new website and forum called "Access Money"........
 
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