Lithium Iron Batteries

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storm42

storm42

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I see a few on here use Lithium Iron batteries as do I on my race bike. This Ducati, yes there is one there, pulled off the track at the weekend and whilst my wife did the modern thing and whipped out the camera phone and took the pic, I tried to help and I am in the middle of the rather acrid smoke trying to get the fairing off.


There was no fire just smoke but that might not have been the case, the battery had popped a plug out of the top and all that smoke was coming out of a 3/8" hole, quite spectacular.


The battery was far too hot to touch and now I am re-evaluating my use of LiFe although I don't have a charging circuit on the bike.


Lithium Iron Batteries
 
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They do spontaneously combust and one of the factors is vibration, once it properly takes hold nothing will stop it. That is the only reason stopping me from using them so sticking with AGM for the moment. The incidence may be low but the consequences mean I am staying away.
 
True and my bike does vibrate, that Ducati however!! they are very smooth so like you say there are other factors.
 
there's some issues with L-I batteries and fires with the airline industry. under my butt is one place where I don't need problems. new to bikes (well, kind of born again - last bike - 1972) and needing a battery for my 74 Mk2, but i'll stick with old school technology - :)
 
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marinatlas said:
Which Lithium battery is it (was it!!)........shorai?
Click to expand...

No, it was a make I’ve never heard of. It was also brand new, so highly unlikely to be vibration / fatigue related.

I saw it too, whilst storm was helping with the bike, I went to get a man with a fire extinguisher, but it was fortunately not required.

The Ducati owner suspected a faulty rectifier had cause over charging.

A fuse between the rectifier and battery (as mentioned by gtiller) would presumably protect against this?

The battery didn’t melt or catch alight in the end, it just kinda ‘fizzled out’.

It’s definitely concerning for other Li battery users... like me...
 
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Fast Eddie said:
No, it was a make I’ve never heard of. It was also brand new, so highly unlikely to be vibration / fatigue related.

The Ducati owner suspected a faulty rectifier had cause over charging.

A fuse between the rectifier and battery (as mentioned by gtiller) would presumably protect against this?
Click to expand...

Overcharging increases the voltage, ordinary fuses blow based on excessive amps, so I have my doubts a fuse would be much help unless there is one based on voltage.
 
Thanks Fast Eddie for your feedback , just because I use some shorai on two of my cdo but with a SH775, so hope the charging issue is the root cause , I had fitted those reg/rec following Jean Des Rosiers (jeandroit) advise years ago ....!
 
Fast Eddie said:
It’s definitely concerning for other Li battery users... like me...
Click to expand...

Seeing that I just put a $200+ Shorai in my e-start - yeah, it's concerning.
I don't think there's anything else that comes close to the power density of these things.
 
I was about ready to try again with a Lithium battery, this time in a modern bike that makes the required 13.1 v at idle. Do any of the uprated Commando setups make 13.1 volts at idle?

My thought was that the two bad Li experiences I had were with the now defunct Ballistic batteries and Shorai batteries are of better quality.

They might be , but a bit of searching found this- modern bikes too-

https://advrider.com/f/threads/melted-shorai-battery.820156/

And this



And so on

https://images.app.goo.gl/Qg3VkCmRSGE5MtyM8
 
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The fort-nine test is a good one- he was not hoodwinked into believing the Pb/EQ labelling.
In actual storage the 9ah lead acid ran the headlight 138 minutes
The 9 ah Li battery ran the light 30 minutes.
This means it held 1.95 ah against 9 for the lead acid.
My thought is that if weight is the concern, and it is a non e-start bike, why not run a tiny lead acid battery instead of Li, one that will run the headlight 30 minutes.
2 ah will do it. Weight is 2 lbs.
Fire risk is pretty much gone and you have a light weight battery that is mated to your vintage bike's charging voltage. Just don't leave the headlight on/ engine off for very long.
I think a big battery is still best, however when striving for weight loss, compromises are necessary.

I might experiment with the MK3- it already has a tiny 1ah battery plumbed in to provide isolated full ignition voltage when e-started.
In the run position the 1ah is in parallel with the main battery, so disconnecting the main battery will have the bike running on the 1 ah.
It will be interesting to see if it works, kickstart only.

Glen
 
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Maybe it’s time the (classic) motorcycle industry sit-up and take notice that fitting a modern regulator/rectifier doesn’t mean it makes the bike suitable for a Lithium-based battery.

I’m bored with how many arguments I’ve had with ‘experts’ on Facebook telling me to stop talking bullshit about batteries and that they ‘sell hundreds of batteries that drop straight in with no problems’
One battery shop is telling people that they can install their new regulator/rectifier alongside a factory zener and rectifier so ‘they don’t have to mess around with the wiring’
No wonder people’s bikes are smoking!

Everyone loves Podtronics and all the big shops recommend them, yet I still remain absolutely convinced they are the reason we are seeing way more melted alternators these days than we did just a few years back.

A series type regulator/rectifier uses pretty much the same components as the short-type units like the Podtronics.
Annoyingly, they are priced at a hundred bucks at the moment because the sales volumes are not so high.
 
As I said on another thread, had a ballistic on my t150, went up in smoke last month, managed to get it off the bike. Please don't imagine it won't happen to you...... that's what I thought. When I'd got a new gel battery on it I checked the regulator output and it was fine, I had wondered if a failed regulator was the cause but no, no reason at all, it just blew.
Terry
 
I use a very small 12 volt lead-acid battery on my Seeley 850 with no charging circuit - total loss. I don't know how many amp - hours it is, but once it is charged, it will last for two days of about 6 track sessions. I was looking at an Xfinity lithium ion battery which is sold in Aldi supermarkets for about $20. Until I had a look on the web, I wasn't aware that it only had power tool connections. It is a 20 volt 4 amp-hour battery, so would need a regulator to drop it to 12 volt and probably a capacitor to smooth it enough to be used with a Boyer. There are regulators available which are used for fitting 12 volt radios into trucks. However there are 12 volt lithium ion battery packs on Ebay which are cheap, but they never seem to specify the dimensions of the packs.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-1800-20000mAh-Rechargeable-Portable-Power-Li-ion-Battery-For-CCTV-Camera/263801034098?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20140106155344&meid=6ef953a6651049d4ad4e05ab147fc232&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=12&mehot=pp&sd=333138810376&itm=263801034098&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vehicle...m=152227433890&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598
 
My understanding is a Lithium battery needs a compatible charging system /charger or bad things may happen. My e-bike Lithium pack needs a specialized charger , not for a regular lead acid battery.
 
I play with radio controlled helicopters, I started with glow engines but changed to battery as the tech became viable. There are many warnings about not leaving batteries Unattended whilst charging and that is with the fancy balance chargers we use.

I have have had 2 Shorai batteries fail, nothing dramatic just stopped giving full voltage/amps. I cut one up and was surprised to find what looked like the batteries I use for the heli inside.

I think when this weekend is out of the way, I will be going back to glass mat type batteries on the race bike and everything else I have.
 
The LiFe battery in my bike went up in smoke about this time last year.
Along the road in Utah. Luckily I was on a big enough hill to get a good roll and start it without a battery.

I won't be trying another one of those even though it was a few lbs lighter.

Back to Odyssey AGM. I didn't even have to buy one. The several year old battery I took out when I installed the LiFe battery was still good.
 
Myford said:
As I said on another thread, had a ballistic on my t150, went up in smoke last month, managed to get it off the bike. Please don't imagine it won't happen to you...... that's what I thought. When I'd got a new gel battery on it I checked the regulator output and it was fine, I had wondered if a failed regulator was the cause but no, no reason at all, it just blew.
Terry
Click to expand...

Indeed, once bitten twice shy Terry!

And I’m not gonna try and persuade you otherwise.

But I do feel the need to challenge get your choice of words when you say the battery caught fire “for no reason at all”.

I don’t agree with that. Maybe there was no reason you could see or find, but clearly something was wrong.
 
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