Fast idle for warm-up?

Y'all are prob getting sick of this thread, but I think I still have something to contribute, so I'll carry on.

First, Thanks, L.A.B., for the Klempf reference. Now I can see it's a 1BA bolt and nut. Even if my 1BA wrench is not a good fit! And 28.22 TPI, good luck finding that one on yr thread gauge, eh?

To pete.v: yeah, I shoulda posted to the "ladies ride a Norton" thread. But I thought I'd wait until after the operation...
More seriously, 1200 idle is just too high for me. This town averages 11 days over 100 degrees (38 C) every year. And I'll get right to work on my anti-ketogenics program.

To splatt: I was tempted to ask the same question. Better you than me, eh?

To worntorn and others: I appreciate yr suggestions and will just tell you all right now, I'm one of those asshats who fishes wildly for advice, and then takes almost none of it.
No offense implied or intended.

What Klempf doesn't reveal (I took my throttle apart just now) is that their PN 16/009 (the screw) is captured by the friction "shoe" inside the housing. Looks like Amal figured how to clamp the shoe onto the non-threaded tip of that screw, to permit the screw to retract the shoe, as well as tighten it. This means that the nut is captive, and the screw doesn't come off unless you force it off the shoe. It also means that the screw can't just fall off, even if you don't use the nut to lock it in place.
So now it looks like I can just run the screw in by hand until it grabs the throttle at a high idle, back it off when I'm ready to go, leave the 1/8WW wrench in the toolbox, and not worry that both screw and nut are gonna go missing.
And all that means that I'm out $42 for jumping the gun with the fancy carb screws, AND that kommando of Scotland is the chicken dinner winner! Thank you, sir! (or madam, or wherever on the spectrum you find yourself, as the case may be)

Mr. Rick said:

\More seriously, 1200 idle is just too high for me. This town averages 11 days over 100 degrees (38 C) every year.
\)

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All the more reason to keep that oil moving.

I would be adding an oil cooler with a thermostat in those conditions if my bike continuously saw those ambient temperatures.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

splatt said:

Were do you guys come up with some of this bullshit.

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That also takes practice.

CanukNortonNut said:

Mr. Rick said:

I'd like to be getting my jacket, helmet, gloves on, gate open, garage door closed, etc., while the motor warms up.
Any ideas?

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Rick,
I do the opposite: drop garage door, put on helmet, jacket, sun glasses, gloves then I open the gas tank main, tickle carbs, add choke valve, put one kick through, then turn key on and kick. It starts first time and I keep the RPM at 2500 for about 30 sec. This throws any oil that has wet sumped from the counter weight of the flywheel onto the cam where it is needed. Then I drive off. The choke is usually turn off just after my driveway. I run my bike in 2nd gear for about 3/4 mile at 2500 RPM until I get on the main road. I take it easy till I have about 5 miles on before I really start giving the bike the coal.
YMMV
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

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I fully agree with Canuk's comment above. I ride a 1972 T120 and a Featherbed Commando 850 racer ALL YEAR LONG as my everyday bikes. I live on a busy street in the middle of Brussels, so I take the bike out of the porch, close the door, put my helmet and gloves on, tickle the carbs, flick the ignition key, kick start the bike (always first kick on the T120 and first or second on the Norton) and as soon as the engine runs, engage first gear and away in the traffic.
I ride more than 10000km a year on each bike (and some more on the Laverda...) so I feel I must be doing something right, that is using those bikes as they were intended: on the road. :mrgreen:

Seriously: the more you ride them, the less you will need to worry about anything...they will keep going forever,

I thought about putting a little wingnut or thumbscrew on there. That way you could keep the idle up a bit until ready to pull away without using a screwdriver.

I set the fiction adjuster once, its set not so it stays open but slowly closes. It only adds a bit of stiffness and this is more than offset by the ease in keeping the throttle open when cruising, if I was ever to come off the bike the throttle will still shut eventually.

My friend Bill had a Comet with the throttle friction set that way, slow return.
While stopped at a red light, about to go, idling in first, clutch in, the bike was rear ended by a car. He came off and ended up on the hood of the car, but as he left the bike he inadvertantly jerked open the throttle, which stayed open. The bike nearly fell over then righted itself and accelerated across the intersection, riderless.
According to Bill, it was "the fastest acceleration that Comet had ever shown" :mrgreen:
Then it smashed into another car and became a parts bike.

Glen

I modified my throttle tension screw by driving the screw out of the friction shoe with a drift, fitting the screw head with a brass turning that was pressed on with retaining compound, fitting with an appropriate spring and re-staking the screw into the friction shoe. Works great.

I did a similar modification, but it's just a knurled 1/4-28 stainless screw. Drilled and tapped the end for a 4-40 screw to attach the tensioner spring with. My bike likes to warm up a bit and I use the screw just as the OP suggested. It's also handy on the highway when my hand gets tired to have a sort of cruise control.

So much ado...

being a smoker affords me the perfect warm up routine.. 1 smoke holding the throttle at 1500 and she's warm. I wouldn't peel away on a cold engine.

I modified my throttle tension screw by driving the screw out of the friction shoe with a drift, fitting the screw head with a brass turning that was pressed on with retaining compound, fitting with an appropriate spring and re-staking the screw into the friction shoe. Works great.

WZ507, that's a nice-looking setup, and pretty much what I was thinking of to begin with. Can you tell us exactly how you re-staked the screw to the shoe, and in such a way that the screw can turn and the shoe does (can) not? Are you peening the tip of the screw over a lip of the shoe? Sounds difficult, no?

The reason to ride off straight away is because a carbed engine needs an excess of fuel to tick over satisfactorily. If you don't know by now, excess fuel washes the oil of the bores and dilutes the oil in your system, neither being a good thing.
Idling an engine is the worst thing to do, especially when cold. I never let the guzzi idle when cold, and at 160,000miles it certainly works.

Running under load obviously makes the engine work harder and get up to temp quicker - obviously not full throttle or anything like it. Get out on the roadway as soon as possible and gently ease her along to get some heat in, a few miles/mintes, whatever you set your clock by.

Hemmings in his gearbox video says to avoid letting engine warm up excessively. Gearbox is not oiling properly when in neutral, and he has seen gearbox failures due to this.

I used a 10-32 thumbscrew that fits pretty good in the housing. I then bought a new tension spring. Using a dremel I reduced the end of the thumbscrew to fit in the hole in the tension spring. I fit a small SS spring (not shown) on the thumbscrew, screwed it into the housing, put the tension spring on and peened over the end of the thumbscrew to trap the tension spring. Works pretty well. Sorry about the lack of pictures.
FWIW I stripped the paint off the housing by using regular baking soda in my sand blaster.

Pete

Mr. Rick said:

I modified my throttle tension screw by driving the screw out of the friction shoe with a drift, fitting the screw head with a brass turning that was pressed on with retaining compound, fitting with an appropriate spring and re-staking the screw into the friction shoe. Works great.

WZ507, that's a nice-looking setup, and pretty much what I was thinking of to begin with. Can you tell us exactly how you re-staked the screw to the shoe, and in such a way that the screw can turn and the shoe does (can) not? Are you peening the tip of the screw over a lip of the shoe? Sounds difficult, no?

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My memory works in “dog years”, i.e., if I performed a task one year ago my powers of recollection are as if it was done 7 years ago. That said, my recollection is that the screw was barely retained to begin with, by a very slight “skirt” or “flare” on the end of the screw that was rolled out over the retainer. When I reinstalled the screw into the retainer the fit was almost as it was before removal and I may have made some small round-headed drift to encourage reformation of the flared shape. Whatever it was that I did was quick and dirty and didn’t take but a minute or 2 to accomplish.

To nickguzzi and others who advocate for the "zero warmup" routine: I don't argue that idling is a great idea, cold engine or otherwise. I envy those of you who are in a position to just take off right away. There are at least 4 stops for me within a half mile of my place, no matter which direction you go, and by now I've learned that warming up even just a little, is mandatory. I have further support for warm-up, in the advice of Steve Payne, who had serviced at least several hundred Commandos before he passed away so young.

To elefantrider: I had the impression that sitting stopped in neutral, would imply very little action (or indeed none at all?) in the gearbox, except for maybe shaking around like the rest of the bike. The gearbox is more likely to fail doing nothing? Help me out here... Maybe on a new thread?

Deets55: Cool idea. 1BA thread is cut or formed a few degrees different from the 10-32.. But I cd get a 1BA die, and keep the throttle thread stock. Thanks!

WZ507: Good one about the dog-years memory! I'm the same or maybe worse! Thanks for the clarification; gives me confidence to try a mod if I cannot get the stock parts to do the job.

Mr. Rick said:

To elefantrider: I had the impression that sitting stopped in neutral, would imply very little action (or indeed none at all?) in the gearbox, except for maybe shaking around like the rest of the bike. The gearbox is more likely to fail doing nothing? Help me out here... Maybe on a new thread?

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Mr. Rick,
+1 as elefantrider commented on earlier:
Mick Hemmings in his strip down of the AMC gearbox video stated "Not to keep the bike in neutral for any longer than need be" as the oil doesn't get to the sleeve gear until the layshaft turns. In neutral the mainshaft turns with the layshaft first gear, which is free to spin until the dogs get engaged and the layshaft then will spin and pickup the oil to throw onto the upper sleeve gear on the main shaft.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Just to note, that today I left on a ride when it was no more than 65 degrees and it took my old Trident 30 miles before the
oil pressure reached a normal stable 58 pounds at 55mph. Bikes take time to warm up when the temps are less than full
summer.

Onder said:

Just to note, that today I left on a ride when it was no more than 65 degrees and it took my old Trident 30 miles before the
oil pressure reached a normal stable 58 pounds at 55mph. Bikes take time to warm up when the temps are less than full
summer.

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When it's pretty cool out I block off the oil cooler on the Trident.