Fast Idleing / Hunting

Fast Eddie

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Just ordered the last 2. Sorry.
That would never have happened in the good old days, a proper storeman would have said: “Can’t let you have ‘em... they’re the last ones... if I let you have ‘em there’ll be none left... now sod off...”!
 

BritTwit

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The way these units flew off the shelves and out the door at eBay, you can bet those folks will be making a whole new crop for sale really soon.;)
 
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Does anyone know the correct thread/size of the stainless blanking plugs when removing the exhaust front pipe oxygen sensors ?
 

nopdog

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Don't know if this is the correct thread but need some help.
Installed the decat and shorties, bike ran ok but very rich.
Did the lambada delete and bike ran crap. Reconnected the 02 sensors.
Sent the ECU away for mapping. Its the OMEX type.
Bike now runs extremely well, richness cured, idles great on startup etc.
BUT..
Sometimes the bike hunts at idle only about 200rpm sometimes slightly more. Shut the bike down and restart its fine or continue riding and it goes away.
From what I've gathered this hunting may be cured by the lambada delete.
But I think it was Richard who told me that the lambada delete may not work so well with the Omex ECU.
Or do the so called idle screw. (it was done before and was fine prior to the remapping)

I'm thinking of trying the lambada delete again and resetting the so called idle screw but am hoping that the collective brains trust may have information on a remedy.
Thanks
Simon
 

nopdog

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Don't know if this is the correct thread but need some help.
Installed the decat and shorties, bike ran ok but very rich.
Did the lambada delete and bike ran crap. Reconnected the 02 sensors.
Sent the ECU away for mapping. Its the OMEX type.
Bike now runs extremely well, richness cured, idles great on startup etc.
BUT..
Sometimes the bike hunts at idle only about 200rpm sometimes slightly more. Shut the bike down and restart its fine or continue riding and it goes away.
From what I've gathered this hunting may be cured by the lambada delete.
But I think it was Richard who told me that the lambada delete may not work so well with the Omex ECU.
Or do the so called idle screw. (it was done before and was fine prior to the remapping)

I'm thinking of trying the lambada delete again and resetting the so called idle screw but am hoping that the collective brains trust may have information on a remedy.
Thanks
Simon
 
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The Euro4 Omex has different mapping and wiring is different. Do You have a 2015 or 2016 with the pre Euro4 Omex ? The O2 deletes take care of the flat spot when cruising at the 3000 rpm range. I have the SC ECU . I still have some reluctance to idle at 1200-1300 when its first warmed up. Once the bike is fully warmed up and has been re-set (turned off and restarted) , I get good idle . Only 200 RPM of hunt is not so bad and you are very close. I can get periods of 1800 RPM (hang) during this initial warm up period. Be sure you have ridden the bike enough to know how it is really running , then give the O2 deletes a try. The only thing the O2 deletes can fix are the issues caused by the O2 sensors , the rest of the Norton 961 quirks will still be there.
 

nopdog

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Thanks Tony good advise I think.
Mines a June 2014.
I’ll ride it some more before retrying the lambada delete.
But that god dam work is getting in the way at the moment.
 
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Thanks Tony good advise I think.
Mines a June 2014.
I’ll ride it some more before retrying the lambada delete.
But that god dam work is getting in the way at the moment.
Well you have an SC ECU then I think. So the O2 sensor deletes will work OK. Just leave the O2 sensors screwed into the exhaust pipes when you try the resistor plugs , then you can switch back if you want to. Not real easy because you need to pull the gas tank , but not too bad about 60 mins total. I have been running without O2 sensors for a month now nearing 1000 miles so far and all is OK. I am getting ready for a longish ride soon and I have already plugged off the exhaust pipes. I think I had a bad O2 sensor in my right hand pipe. When I did the work at Coote's I noticed a lot more carbon deposits in that cylinder. So make a long story short I have purchased a new set of O2 sensors and I will not be installing them now. IF down the road I need too replace my SC ECU and I am told that This requires working O2 sensors then I will have them . I have been doing several shake down runs and MPG has been as low as 43.3 and as high as 46.5 US Gallons , at 70 to 75 mph. Unfortunately there is going to be a bunch of superslab (expressway) between here and the Moutain Road called the Dragons Tail . I will take 2 liters of gas along in case I run out. This is always a problem when you are running with bigger bikes (big gas tank bikes) FJR , BMW , Honda etc . I think I am good for 150 miles at 70 mph . I just did a 145 mile run a steady 70 to 75 mph and put in 3.28 US Gallons . Now if Raphi is right and I can get to 3.5 gallons....
 

nopdog

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Understood and thanks. My right hand cylinder/pipe is the same. I thought it was the firing sequence it seems to run hotter than left cylinder. If I could ask what 02 censors did you purchase as stand by.
 
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Hi All,
I have just been for a spin after completing all the upgrades suggested by Richard and replaced the sensors with genuine Bosch. The bike runs great and although it stated from cold with an idle at 1400 it dropped back to 1200 once warmed up. When I stopped at the alights after about 20 minutes riding it was 'hunting' between 12 - 1800 revs. I turned it off and waited a bit and when I restarted it was idling nicely at 1200, but at the next set of lights it was hunting again.
Any thoughts anyone?

Cheers

Paul
Check that the throttle stop screw hasent wound itself in. The factory chose not to use a locknut only a dimple in the throttle body on the screw. Mine had slowly wound in and i spent weeks doing all the upgrades and finally as soon as i reset the screw its all fixed. At least have all the upgraded sensors coils leads etc done. Cheers
 
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Yea. Mine got stuck on 2400 rpm yesterday. Average rpm 1800 when hot. I am sure the dealership put 77 back in the ecu last year. I didn't have these problems with 91. Thought the O2 sensor bypass would cure that. It didn't.
 
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Are you going to try the IAC blocking plug and idle screw setting when hot like Richard-7 ?
 
Last edited:

BritTwit

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Curtis,

When the throttle is closed at a light, the IAC takes control of the engine.
The Idle Air Valve controls how much air bypasses the closed throttle valve.
The IAV is operated in accordance with IAC programming loaded into the ecu.

It may be possible to fix this by getting a new map installed in your ecu.
I don't know if the IAC programming is also updated with a map installation - 90 or 91.
Maybe Richard or TonyA can chime in here.
Have you asked AF1 if you can send them your ecu and get it remapped?

Otherwise, to fix this you have to be able to access the IAC section of the ecu.
This is why I intend to send my ecu to SC-Delta to have it unlocked.
Then a Dyno tuner can fix the mapping, and IAC all at once.
 
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Ive tried ALL the maps. We notice the omex ECU Has a stronger output to the idle motor. BUT.... some of the newer bikes also have this issue. We feel its the IAM itself. Either not right for the job, gets dirty and makes it harder to move or gets hot and makes it harder to move. Hence why eliminating it made my life a lot better. No more key off key on after warm up. Trying to figure out its randomness of often working great then once in a while not working so great. I made a post about it. Im okay without the IAM but some may not be. Try eliminating it and see what you think. It takes all of about 5min and you can try it. If you don’t like it put it back the way it was. Disclaimer: Im suggesting this for those who understand how the sysyem works and know this would be fully against the manufacturers advice. So please don’t anyone yell at the factory and say Richard said to do this. They already hate me. But this IAM high idle is scary and unsafe. I hope Norton puts out a fix before someone gets hurt.
 
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When I first got the bike and it was stuck at 2400, much worse that it is now, I noticed the idler valve screws were back way out and it was very loose, Tightened those up and the problem ceased...mostly. In this case, the bike if running well most of the time until I get off the highway. A steady 4200-4800 rpm for 40-50 miles or so.
 

BritTwit

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Ive tried ALL the maps. We notice the omex ECU Has a stronger output to the idle motor. BUT.... some of the newer bikes also have this issue. We feel its the IAM itself. Either not right for the job, gets dirty and makes it harder to move or gets hot and makes it harder to move. Hence why eliminating it made my life a lot better. No more key off key on after warm up. Trying to figure out its randomness of often working great then once in a while not working so great. I made a post about it. Im okay without the IAM but some may not be. Try eliminating it and see what you think. It takes all of about 5min and you can try it. If you don’t like it put it back the way it was. Disclaimer: Im suggesting this for those who understand how the sysyem works and know this would be fully against the manufacturers advice. So please don’t anyone yell at the factory and say Richard said to do this. They already hate me. But this IAM high idle is scary and unsafe. I hope Norton puts out a fix before someone gets hurt.
Richard,

I think your solution WILL work, because it simply eliminates the IAC circuit entirely.
My Dyno guy said that the IAC programming can be adjusted on almost all ECU's if you can gain access to that area of the ECU which is normally blocked/locked.
He has done this on Honda, Kawasaki, and other Keihin ecu's.

The idle air circuit is simply deigned to reduce emissions to the greatest extent possible to meet regulatory controls. One of the EPA tests is engine emissions during idling. That's why the valve is designed to precisely meter air during engine idling when the TPS detects no manual throttle use.

But as you did, you can get the bike to idle on the throttle valve with a slight opening instead of the IA valve, and disable the IAC completely.
This will result in higher emissions at idle than you would have with the IAC operating.
But really, who gives a crap about that.
The goal for us is a better running M/C.
 
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