Engine troubles

BritTwit said:
Shayne,

Did you check beneath your seat for a OBD2 plug?
Before you start to make changes to, or replace anything, first try to get a OBD reader on the bike to check for error codes.
Could save you time, effort, and money.
Click to expand...
Hi Everyone.
Thanks again for posting your thoughts on this.
Brit… No. I didn’t look for the OBD2 plug…
I spoke to Dave C this morning and we talked about the ecu and efi system. Based on what he had said, the ECU wasn’t looking like it was the problem.
He did say that the injectors can fail.
So.. thats the direction I ended up taking..
With some other diversions along the way.
I’ll respond to everyone’s recent ideas then I’ll post my findings at the end.
Bare with me!!
Thanks!!
 
City Garage said:
1) Worry about the engine first, a jumpy engine will make for a jumpy primary
2) if you are getting spark then unless you have an unlocked ecu you wont know how its set. it is typically set to direct and not wasted since you have a three-wire coil.
3) injectors fire to each cylinder as needed
4) if your motorcycle is starting and idling then I wouldn't jump to an ECU issue (unlike what Tony and I recently discovered with a couple of new ones)

Let me help this along and for future posts when someone provides advice so there is no duplication and we can help you get the issue resolved.

You took apart the primary for an engine issue? So you had to drain that oil and remove the cover just put it back together?

Why check the valves at this point. you already did a compression check which showed good numbers. The only thing better would be a leak down but those numbers I would doubt you are going to find a valve issue.

You were asked certain questions so we can help troubleshoot certain issues and also address parts that can be excluded from your troubleshooting. Answer all those relevant questions first BEFORE you start taking apart your engine or anything else.

1- you confirmed you have spark
2-confirm you have air going into the intake. We have had 961's in the shop with filters so filled with oil it blocked most of the air intake
3- I gave you advice on how to confirm you have fuel going to the cylinders simple and effective. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge to test the fuel pump then you cant exclude that until you do. A bike will idle on low fuel pressure and when you give it throttle it will die so you need to check that. Listen for the fuel pump. They can go bad but unless you have let the bike sit or using crappy fuel it's most likely not the issue but without knowing the pressure you can't say for sure.

Injectors can be tested at home once they are pulled out with a 9v battery and a hose adapter over the intake side using carb cleaner Youtube it and you'll see what I mean. we use injector testers but same same.

you never confirmed that you have fuel in the gas tank. I never assume that when troubleshooting any motorcycle. I can't tell you how many times customers have said their bike doest start only to find little or no fuel in the tank or the fuel valve off( fuel valve doesn't apply here but the same point)

Fuel fitting can be removed from the tank to check for fuel flow. hose over the elbow and turn on ignition how does the fuel flow?

4- what ECU do you have? many people have given advice on the ECU but no reply?

If you are asking for help please provide some of that information so we can give you good information unless you like taking apart your motorcycle for no reason.


Basic engine troubleshooting first air, spark and fuel. if you start taking things apart you will just need to put it all back together to do the basics. Personally, I think every time you take something apart you are just asking to introduce another problem like not connecting the wires back or unplugging without disconnecting battery etc.

Sorry my post seems direct but you want help with a specific problem then the post needs to contain specifics.
Click to expand...
Hi City
Thanks again for your input. I apologize if it seemed I got a bit distracted and didn’t follow your recommends.
- my check my filter and air box quite often for unwanted oil
- there is fuel in the tank( i had filled up 40 miles prior to the incident
- My Ecu is the Onex type. It has been flashed for the performance exhaust and latest program for better idling. This was done by Dave C
- I did get into a bit of a “rabbit hole” but it was more for my pice of mind. That is referring to the primary. I was curious why it would go quite. And it has a balance shaft. So I thought there might be a connection to a rough/shaking type engine. I hindsight, I didn’t need to do that.
- on this years maintenance, I wanted to do a head re torque. So that was where I was heading. Along with maybe an injector check. I have since removed the valve cover…. I will post what I’ve found.
Thanks
 

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So….. a broken rocker arm bolt. Thank goodness it happened in front of the shop. I’m not sure why this would happen. I did check the rocker arm shaft and bushing for ”feel”. There might be a very slight friction when rotating the rocker arm on the shaft but I dont know if it would cause a broken bolt.
I will probably need a new adjuster ball bolt. But I’ll cross that road soon
I think I remember someone had a problem with a rocker arm bushing so I’ll look at that too.
I do feel a bit better that I’ve found the problem.
I think that I should be able to get that broken part of the bolt out too with out taking the head off. Thats good.
And the broken bolt stayed in place! Also good!!
The adventure continues…….
 
Some more pictures
 

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I’ve just replaced my rocker spindles/bushes with Ollie Thiels versions, feeling pretty happy with that spend about now.
 
Upgrades???!! I’ll check out his website.
I wonder if he would have a adjustable ball bolt( The rocker adjustment bolt)
Do you happen to know what he changed?( material, oil feed holes, etc)
 
I just went on Thiels website. That looks promising. And he might have a good replacement ball adjuster. Good heads up on the info . Thanks again
 
Because of my nervousness over shipping my parts out during the Covid disruptions i bought the bushes and spindles and had them fitted locally.
The system remains unchanged so I presume just the correct materials and clearances.
 
Charlotte said:
So….. a broken rocker arm bolt. Thank goodness it happened in front of the shop. I’m not sure why this would happen. I did check the rocker arm shaft and bushing for ”feel”. There might be a very slight friction when rotating the rocker arm on the shaft but I dont know if it would cause a broken bolt.
I will probably need a new adjuster ball bolt. But I’ll cross that road soon
I think I remember someone had a problem with a rocker arm bushing so I’ll look at that too.
I do feel a bit better that I’ve found the problem.
I think that I should be able to get that broken part of the bolt out too with out taking the head off. Thats good.
And the broken bolt stayed in place! Also good!!
The adventure continues…….
Click to expand...
Good find , Good Work !
 
I recall that Bushman found some problems in the rocker area. Oil starvation was the problem IIRC. He did something about it and posted the info, might be worth a search here.

Glen
 
TonyA said:
Guys do ya think maybe over torquing of the bolts maybe ? Replace all the bolt and properly torque them.
Click to expand...
Hey Tony
Anything is possible. The fellow that helped me with the engine rebuild( bearings, crank plate bolt mod, balance shaft rebalance, etc) is a retired Honda motorcycle tech who supposedly was that particular shops engine guy. Not to say mistakes happen.
When I spoke to him tonight about me findings, he wondered if maybe the bolts bottomed out right at the point they would reach their torque setting. So it might have not been noticeable. So I might investigate the other bolts to see if the length is a concern.
Or maybe that particular bolt wasn’t torqued…….?
And it worked itself loose to the point that the rocker shaft was moving and then putting stress on the bolt?
Just a thought
 
worntorn said:
I recall that Bushman found some problems in the rocker area. Oil starvation was the problem IIRC. He did something about it and posted the info, might be worth a search here.

Glen
Click to expand...
Hi Glen
I found that wright up that Jim did. I’ll reach out to him to get some more details on his thoughts on it.
Cheers
Shayne
 
Charlotte said:
Hey Tony
Anything is possible. The fellow that helped me with the engine rebuild( bearings, crank plate bolt mod, balance shaft rebalance, etc) is a retired Honda motorcycle tech who supposedly was that particular shops engine guy. Not to say mistakes happen.
When I spoke to him tonight about me findings, he wondered if maybe the bolts bottomed out right at the point they would reach their torque setting. So it might have not been noticeable. So I might investigate the other bolts to see if the length is a concern.
Or maybe that particular bolt wasn’t torqued…….?
And it worked itself loose to the point that the rocker shaft was moving and then putting stress on the bolt?
Just a thought
Click to expand...
Nice find, ( well if you can call it that) but well done !!

I would definitely bottom out a bolt and measure how much is still proud.

By the way, If you still have your primary open make sure the starter ring gear is secure.
 

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