Engine troubles

cliffa said:
Keep em coming Stu !! :)
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You'll all soon get mega bored of me, if you aint already :oops:
Another random pic of something Ive been up to. Working on some nicer pegs. Been doing odds and sods, see if there's much of a market for it in the future.
I'll keep my pics to a more relevant thread in future, sorry.
 

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No I didn't spot it , Can you point out what I am looking for ? Also , I appreciate that you are taking the time to point this out. We have to stick together to get through this. HA !
 
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Hi Everyone
I was able to do some more investigating today. I checked for anything on the outside of the engine that looked out of place( lines, connectors, etc). Nothing jumped out at me. Then I pulled the oil filter and all is good there. Then I pulled the primary cover. Everything seems ok. I was planning on re-torqing the head( its been 1000 or miles since the engine was apart) and I‘ll check and adjust the valves while the valve cover is off.
I’m thinking it might be a fueling issue like previously suggested. So regarding injectors, do we have a source of good replacement injectors? I can also get a local shop to check and service these. And of course, I would probably get him to check them before I serviced or replaced them.
Some questions though…
1) I had mentioned before that for the last 200 miles or so, the primary was very quite. So thats associated with the balance shaft and spring . Correct? Any ideas why it would get quieter? Would that be something to do with the spring tension?
2) the bike has lots of ignition spark. How do the spark plugs fire? Do they fire at the same time( like wasted spark?) or do they fire when each cylinder gets to btdc?
3) I’m assuming the fuel injectors only spray when it’s required at each cylinder?
4) is it possible the ECU has malfunctioned on one cylinder?

In hindsight, I should have ran the bike more to see if there was a dead cylinder and which one but I was too concerned that something internal was out of sorts. So it’ll be awhile before I get the bike back together enough to check to see which cylinder . Thats of course after I check valve train. And possible efi issues.
Thoughts??
Shayne
 
TonyA said:
No I didn't spot it , Can you point out what I am looking for ? Also , I appreciate that you are taking the time to point this out. We have to stick together to get through this. HA !
Click to expand...
See the blocks between the fins, and the rougher finish? I was told that the early one were sandcast and the later one's, made by the Taiwanese, are die-cast. I dont know much about the differences between the two though, always figured sand casting was a rough finish and die cast a smooth finish?
 
Charlotte said:
Hi Everyone
I was able to do some more investigating today. I checked for anything on the outside of the engine that looked out of place( lines, connectors, etc). Nothing jumped out at me. Then I pulled the oil filter and all is good there. Then I pulled the primary cover. Everything seems ok. I was planning on re-torqing the head( its been 1000 or miles since the engine was apart) and I‘ll check and adjust the valves while the valve cover is off.
I’m thinking it might be a fueling issue like previously suggested. So regarding injectors, do we have a source of good replacement injectors? I can also get a local shop to check and service these. And of course, I would probably get him to check them before I serviced or replaced them.
Some questions though…
1) I had mentioned before that for the last 200 miles or so, the primary was very quite. So thats associated with the balance shaft and spring . Correct? Any ideas why it would get quieter? Would that be something to do with the spring tension?
2) the bike has lots of ignition spark. How do the spark plugs fire? Do they fire at the same time( like wasted spark?) or do they fire when each cylinder gets to btdc?
3) I’m assuming the fuel injectors only spray when it’s required at each cylinder?
4) is it possible the ECU has malfunctioned on one cylinder?

In hindsight, I should have ran the bike more to see if there was a dead cylinder and which one but I was too concerned that something internal was out of sorts. So it’ll be awhile before I get the bike back together enough to check to see which cylinder . Thats of course after I check valve train. And possible efi issues.
Thoughts??
Shayne
Click to expand...
Shayne,

Did you check beneath your seat for a OBD2 plug?
Before you start to make changes to, or replace anything, first try to get a OBD reader on the bike to check for error codes.
Could save you time, effort, and money.
 
Charlotte said:
Hi Everyone
I was able to do some more investigating today. I checked for anything on the outside of the engine that looked out of place( lines, connectors, etc). Nothing jumped out at me. Then I pulled the oil filter and all is good there. Then I pulled the primary cover. Everything seems ok. I was planning on re-torqing the head( its been 1000 or miles since the engine was apart) and I‘ll check and adjust the valves while the valve cover is off.
I’m thinking it might be a fueling issue like previously suggested. So regarding injectors, do we have a source of good replacement injectors? I can also get a local shop to check and service these. And of course, I would probably get him to check them before I serviced or replaced them.
Some questions though…
1) I had mentioned before that for the last 200 miles or so, the primary was very quite. So thats associated with the balance shaft and spring . Correct? Any ideas why it would get quieter? Would that be something to do with the spring tension?
2) the bike has lots of ignition spark. How do the spark plugs fire? Do they fire at the same time( like wasted spark?) or do they fire when each cylinder gets to btdc?
3) I’m assuming the fuel injectors only spray when it’s required at each cylinder?
4) is it possible the ECU has malfunctioned on one cylinder?

In hindsight, I should have ran the bike more to see if there was a dead cylinder and which one but I was too concerned that something internal was out of sorts. So it’ll be awhile before I get the bike back together enough to check to see which cylinder . Thats of course after I check valve train. And possible efi issues.
Thoughts??
Shayne
Click to expand...
1) Worry about the engine first, a jumpy engine will make for a jumpy primary
2) if you are getting spark then unless you have an unlocked ecu you wont know how its set. it is typically set to direct and not wasted since you have a three-wire coil.
3) injectors fire to each cylinder as needed
4) if your motorcycle is starting and idling then I wouldn't jump to an ECU issue (unlike what Tony and I recently discovered with a couple of new ones)

Let me help this along and for future posts when someone provides advice so there is no duplication and we can help you get the issue resolved.

You took apart the primary for an engine issue? So you had to drain that oil and remove the cover just put it back together?

Why check the valves at this point. you already did a compression check which showed good numbers. The only thing better would be a leak down but those numbers I would doubt you are going to find a valve issue.

You were asked certain questions so we can help troubleshoot certain issues and also address parts that can be excluded from your troubleshooting. Answer all those relevant questions first BEFORE you start taking apart your engine or anything else.

1- you confirmed you have spark
2-confirm you have air going into the intake. We have had 961's in the shop with filters so filled with oil it blocked most of the air intake
3- I gave you advice on how to confirm you have fuel going to the cylinders simple and effective. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge to test the fuel pump then you cant exclude that until you do. A bike will idle on low fuel pressure and when you give it throttle it will die so you need to check that. Listen for the fuel pump. They can go bad but unless you have let the bike sit or using crappy fuel it's most likely not the issue but without knowing the pressure you can't say for sure.

Injectors can be tested at home once they are pulled out with a 9v battery and a hose adapter over the intake side using carb cleaner Youtube it and you'll see what I mean. we use injector testers but same same.

you never confirmed that you have fuel in the gas tank. I never assume that when troubleshooting any motorcycle. I can't tell you how many times customers have said their bike doest start only to find little or no fuel in the tank or the fuel valve off( fuel valve doesn't apply here but the same point)

Fuel fitting can be removed from the tank to check for fuel flow. hose over the elbow and turn on ignition how does the fuel flow?

4- what ECU do you have? many people have given advice on the ECU but no reply?

If you are asking for help please provide some of that information so we can give you good information unless you like taking apart your motorcycle for no reason.


Basic engine troubleshooting first air, spark and fuel. if you start taking things apart you will just need to put it all back together to do the basics. Personally, I think every time you take something apart you are just asking to introduce another problem like not connecting the wires back or unplugging without disconnecting battery etc.

Sorry my post seems direct but you want help with a specific problem then the post needs to contain specifics.
 
His compression test showed slightly low numbers tbh, hence my recommendation of a cylinder leak down.
As a comparison, I just pulled No1 plug out of my bike..
Obviously lots of variables here, but certainly higher than the figures the OP was quoting.
 

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Stu Bodycote said:
His compression test showed slightly low numbers tbh, hence my recommendation of a cylinder leak down.
As a comparison, I just pulled No1 plug out of my bike..
Obviously lots of variables here, but certainly higher than the figures the OP was quoting.
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he was at 140-150 spec is 120-170 " I then did a compression test. Throttle side=150. Clutch side 140-145"

I agree to the leak down but he needs to confirm some basics first as I stated.
 
Any given spec from Norton, I'd just disregard. They had a habit of plucking figures out of thin air and also copy and pasting from other brands lol (the Triumph 675 service schedule used in the 961 owners booklet is a great example of this).
I'm a big fan of cylinder leak down tests, as they quickly verify or pinpoint issues at zero cost, along with pretty much not getting your hands dirty, with whats involved.
Trouble with diagnosing any car or bike running concern over the internet....bloody hardwork.
 
Trouble is...I know diddly squat about the old Nortons. Had nothing to do with them. I only know 961's due to my time at Norton (Production, then Engine build....left Norton...invited back a year later...V4 stuff...then took over the Service workshop). My only other professional involvement with motorcycles prior to Norton was running the workshop at a bike place in Greece, twenty years ago. All my other working life is car related (I served my apprenticeship at a DeTomaso Pantera specialist of all things...bloody rot boxes..not the best start to my career haha).
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Trouble is...I know diddly squat about the old Nortons. Had nothing to do with them. I only know 961's due to my time at Norton (Production, then Engine build....left Norton...invited back a year later...V4 stuff...then took over the Service workshop). My only other professional involvement with motorcycles prior to Norton was running the workshop at a bike place in Greece, twenty years ago. All my other working life is car related (I served my apprenticeship at a DeTomaso Pantera specialist of all things...bloody rot boxes..not the best start to my career haha).
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Old Nortons are easier than the 961's. A lot of the problems with the 961 is the early 2000's technology in them. things like obsolete or hard to find IAC or copying 1991-2003 Harley Sportster transmission, poor wiring, mismatch parts, etc. the mismash of junk Chinese and India copy parts.
 
City Garage said:
Old Nortons are easier than the 961's. A lot of the problems with the 961 is the early 2000's technology in them. things like obsolete or hard to find IAC or copying 1991-2003 Harley Sportster transmission, poor wiring, mismatch parts, etc. the mismash of junk Chinese and India copy parts.
Click to expand...
And those are just the 961's good features. :)
 
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