Which would YOU have......?

Gojuu said:
The 961 isn't dead, so doesn't have an epitaph.
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Really, how long do you think Dr. Bob is going to pay royalties to Jinlang for each 961 produced?
Wait until the NEW Twins are introduced next year.
Can you say, sayonara 961?
The NEW 961 is bate to keep Norton fans interested while the real future twins are developed.
The 961 is dead, but us Commando fans just don't realize it yet.:cool:
 
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Regards handling of the 961....I'm not a particularly slow rider, but I did once have my ass handed to me by someone on a 961 Domi at the IoM, on the mountain circuit. Granted he was a local and knew the mountain well....but I was on a Ducati 748sp.
 
BritTwit said:
Really, how long do you think Dr. Bob is going to pay royalties to Jinlang for each 961 produced?
Wait until the NEW Twins are introduced next year.
Can you say, sayonara 961?
The NEW 961 is bate to keep Norton fans interested while the real future twins are developed.
The 961 is dead, but us Commando fans just don't realize it yet.:cool:
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At least if they bring out another Commando, the trolls can bash those instead.
 
worntorn said:
"Tyres alone would win it."

Bikes like the 961 or 850 with low horsepower are faster with skinny tires.
The wide tires are needed to put the power of a sportbike or GP bike (250bhp!) to ground.
Other than that, the wide tires detract from speed and handling. Big tires on a low powered bike are just a trendy styling exercise.
Try outrunning a skinny tired Norton Manx with your fat tired 961.

I roadraced an aggressive rider on a Thruxton R with my 850 and the 850 won. I picked the road.
He is knee down rider so I took him to a local mountain road that is so twisty that there is no time to get a knee down. Also, the power of the 850 is about all that can be used there, so all of his extra power was useless.
The skinny tires are wonderful for chucking the bike side to side at speed.
Afterwards he wanted to know what had been modified on the Commando suspension to make it outhandle his 1200 R.
I told him the truth, it is as it left the factory in 1975, all the same items, nothing replaced or even rebuilt.
There is 5 year old oil in the forks I suppose, so that is fairly new!



Glen
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So, to be clear, your 850 is faster than a Thruxton R. :rolleyes:
 
On that road , yes the 850 it is just as fast as the Thruxton R.
I knew the road, the other guy didn't so I left him behind on his Thrux r.
If he knew the road well there wouldn't be much difference between the bikes on such a twisty road.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
"Tyres alone would win it."

Bikes like the 961 or 850 with low horsepower are faster with skinny tires.
The wide tires are needed to put the power of a sportbike or GP bike (250bhp!) to ground.
Other than that, the wide tires detract from speed and handling. Big tires on a low powered bike are just a trendy styling exercise.
Try outrunning a skinny tired Norton Manx with your fat tired 961.

I roadraced an aggressive rider on a Thruxton R with my 850 and the 850 won. I picked the road.
He is knee down rider so I took him to a local mountain road that is so twisty that there is no time to get a knee down. Also, the power of the 850 is about all that can be used there, so all of his extra power was useless.
The skinny tires are wonderful for chucking the bike side to side at speed.
Afterwards he wanted to know what had been modified on the Commando suspension to make it outhandle his 1200 R.
I told him the truth, it is as it left the factory in 1975, all the same items, nothing replaced or even rebuilt.
There is 5 year old oil in the forks I suppose, so that is fairly new!


Glen
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The 750/850 may be faster with skinny tires. Certainly, their weak, old frames would never be able to resolve the stresses created by the enormous traction produced bu "fat" modern tires. It would result in wild front end oscillations that make the bike uncontrollable. Modern frames and suspension can leverage these benefits, where old bikes simply can't - due to their design.
I think if you take a modern fat tires 600cc supersport, and compare its handling at speed to an old Manx it will be an eye opener.
Ok, you may have to rev-limit the supersport bike to 7,000RPM, where it makes 50HP, like the Manx.:cool:

The fat modern tires are needed not just to put the power down to the ground, but also to stick the bike under high speed cornering, and breaking forces. A Manx is a good old bike, but they never generated those types of forces like modern machines do.

Yes, the 180 section rear tire on the 961 is gross overkill for the 70+HP, but the same tire provides excellent cornering traction, and the 120 section front tire allows the same, and also sustains very high braking forces. With the suspension sag set properly, front and rear, and proper tire inflation, and wheel alignment, I think a 961 would avail itself well against an old Manx, or Commando for that matter.
 
worntorn said:
On that road , yes the 850 it is just as fast as the Thruxtonn R.
I knew the road, the other guy didn't so I left him behind on his Thrux r.
If he knew the road well there wouldn't be much difference between the bikes on such a twisty road.

Glen
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I would not dream of questioning this scientific method. You’ve never shown any bias, I’m sure it’s sound.

@Voodooo you have won the bet.
 
Gojuu said:
At least if they bring out another Commando, the trolls can bash those instead.
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In one of Dr Bob's first interviews he remarked that there would probably be a Commando in Norton's future in some form.
If new twins are undergoing design, I would bet one of them will be the 961's replacement.
 
BritTwit said:
In one of Dr Bob's first interviews he remarked that there would probably be a Commando in Norton's future in some form.
If new twins are undergoing design, I would bet one of them will be the 961's replacement.
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Whatever it is, it won’t beat @worntorn on his 850.

Hopefully someone can figure out how to put FCR’s on it too.
 
Gojuu said:
I would not dream of questioning this scientific method. You’ve never shown any bias, I’m sure it’s sound.

@Voodooo you have won the bet.
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Not looking for a win. But it’s like comparing a vintage mustang to a vintage Mini. In the Apex the mini wins. In the straights, the mustang wins.
If the track has many turns. The mini will most likely take the win. Unless the finish line is a 1.2 mile long or longer 😂
 
BritTwit said:
The 750/850 may be faster with skinny tires. Certainly, their weak, old frames would never be able to resolve the stresses created by the enormous traction produced bu "fat" modern tires. It would result in wild front end oscillations that make the bike uncontrollable. Modern frames and suspension can leverage these benefits, where old bikes simply can't - due to their design.
I think if you take a modern fat tires 600cc supersport, and compare its handling at speed to an old Manx it will be an eye opener.
Ok, you may have to rev-limit the supersport bike to 7,000RPM, where it makes 50HP, like the Manx.:cool:

The fat modern tires are needed not just to put the power down to the ground, but also to stick the bike under high speed cornering, and breaking forces. A Manx is a good old bike, but they never generated those types of forces like modern machines do.

Yes, the 180 section rear tire on the 961 is gross overkill for the 70+HP, but the same tire provides excellent cornering traction, and the 120 section front tire allows the same, and also sustains very high braking forces. With the suspension sag set properly, front and rear, and proper tire inflation, and wheel alignment, I think a 961 would avail itself well against an old Manx, or Commando for that matter.
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I recently read about a 650 SV Suzuki race class that was paired up for one weekend of racing against a group of old guys ( mostly expat Brits)on original Manx Nortons.
The 650 SV rules allowed for modification of the bike's to about 80 bhp, so most were said to be in around that figure. The young fellow who wrote the article said that he and his buddies were pretty annoyed when they learned they would be stuck racing with these old farts on their old bikes all weekend.
He expected that the modified SVs with hotshot pilots would quickly dispense of the old Nortons.
He said " All we heard all weekend were the booming megaphone exhausts from those bloody Manx Nortons"
Yes the Manx Nortons were faster on that track than the race modified SVs.
Quite a bit faster, apparently!

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
I recently read about a 650 SV Suzuki race class that was paired up for one weekend of racing against a group of old guys ( mostly expat Brits)on original Manx Nortons.
The 650 SV rules allowed for modification of the bike's to about 80 bhp, so most were said to be in around that figure. The young fellow who wrote the article said that he and his buddies were pretty annoyed when they learned they would be stuck racing with these old farts on their old bikes all weekend.
He expected that the modified SVs with hotshot pilots would quickly dispense of the old Nortons.
He said " All we heard all weekend were the booming megaphone exhausts from those bloody Manx Nortons"
Yes the Manx Nortons were faster on that track than the race modified SVs.
Quite a bit faster, apparently!

Glen
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This is great. Anymore “proof”?
 
Voodooo said:
Not looking for a win. But it’s like comparing a vintage mustang to a vintage Mini. In the Apex the mini wins. In the straights, the mustang wins.
If the track has many turns. The mini will most likely take the win. Unless the finish line is a 1.2 mile long or longer 😂
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You mean like where the mini and the mustang have the same number of cylinders, around the same weight, similar wheelbase?

Oh, I get it. @worntorn has his SV650 class race Manx race motor in one?

Or was the hotshot pilot in the mini?

Either way; it’s the old bloke on the old machine that wins, yeah? Is how it goes?

Maybe I can do one.

The other day I was at a racetrack. Some old blokes in wooden chariots with 850 written on the side lined up to a SpaceX rocket with some young whippersnapper, Marquez or something. Everyone thought the SpaceX Rocket would be fast, until the Wooden Chariot - with FCR’s screaming - lapped around Uranus first.

How did I go?

F%$k, I forgot the tyres.
 
Gojuu said:
You mean like where the mini and the mustang have the same number of cylinders, around the same weight, similar wheelbase?

Oh, I get it. @worntorn has his SV650 class race Manx race motor in one?

Or was the hotshot pilot in the mini?

Either way; it’s the old bloke on the old machine that wins, yeah? Is how it goes?

Maybe I can do one.

The other day I was at a racetrack. Some old blokes in wooden chariots with 850 written on the side lined up to a SpaceX rocket with some young whippersnapper, Marquez or something. Everyone thought the SpaceX Rocket would be fast, until the Wooden Chariot - with FCR’s screaming - lapped around Uranus first.

How did I go?

F%$k, I forgot the tyres.
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Are you missing my whole point?
I need to get off this forum.
 
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Whoooooh guys 😂 just a bit of fun and a comparison that never really stood up to start with. Dreaming up anecdotal scenarios where one may benefit from a characteristic or situation that doesn’t favour the other is a damned mission; even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Let’s just all cordially agree that the 961 wins outright! In all scenarios! With ease! - and be done with it. And that our ‘modern‘ bike hero would be in the trackside cafe downing a soy latte, whilst the greasy old git is still mopping oil from bend 3.

So there! Resolved! Well…………..it is our forum!🤣

By the way, did you know that the average secretary’s left hand does 65% of the typing?
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Whoooooh guys 😂 just a bit of fun and a comparison that never really stood up to start with. Dreaming up anecdotal scenarios where one may benefit from a characteristic or situation that doesn’t favour the other is a damned mission; even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Let’s just all cordially agree that the 961 wins outright! In all scenarios! With ease! - and be done with it. And that our ‘modern‘ bike hero would be in the trackside cafe downing a soy latte, whilst the greasy old git is still mopping oil from bend 3.

So there! Resolved! Well…………..it is our forum!🤣

By the way, did you know that the average secretary’s left hand does 65% of the typing?
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Wow, makes me wonder what that right hand is up to mean while!
 
Voodooo said:
Are you missing my whole point?
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I don't think so @Voodooo . Maybe you've missed mine. There are things stated that aren't logical to me. Your point about a Mini and a Mustang is valid. I just don't see that an 850 and a 961 aligns to it. If I took yours out of context then I apologise.

By the same token, I simply can't take any point from the aberration of reality posted from @worntorn . I'm happy enough if he believes that story. Just don't expect me too. it appears to exist in total bias and abscence of reality.

What I do get is, he likes his bike.

And that's all fine. I've ridden 850's. I obviously own a 961. If I could get one, I'd buy a 961 Domi. I don't own a Speed twin, but I do own a current Bonne 1200, have had a Thruxton 1200. I have a bunch of Hondas. Had a Harley. Numerous Ducatis. I can tune a carb, set points - but also use a laptop to do the same things. I can see the want to compare all these things. But it all seems down to people trying to justify choices they make to others outside themselves - where they only need to justify it to themselves.

(And in Stephens case, his missus.)

If you like a bike; buy it. If you're not sure you want a bike, but can afford to and want the experience; buy it. Just don't try and justify whatever hole you have over your decision by putting down what I have.
 
Gojuu said:
where they only need to justify it to themselves.

(And in Stephens case, his missus.)
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I trust that you’re not inferring that I’m ‘Bitch Whipped’ Gj:mad:!?

I’ll have you know that I’m allowed to be in charge every second Wednesday (afternoon), whilst she’s at work!!

Unless she leaves our Kelpie Walter in charge, in which case I’m 2IC :rolleyes: !

Which would YOU have......?
 
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