Starting sequence

Status
Not open for further replies.
speirmoor

speirmoor

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,766
Country flag
The red ignition light on the console remains lit while the bike has started and does so until the engine is revved then its goes away.
Whats going on here ?
Is this a sign of a weak battery (its always on the charger when not in use).
Also I cant turn on the lights right away as it kills the engine but once warmed up everything is fine.
 
The light is ment to go off when the generator is producing more power than the bike is consuming.
Mine goes away as soon as engine starts and idles above 1,000.

Yours sounds like it is not producing enough electricity at lower revs and when you put the lights on it pulls your voltage below the level the ignition needs. Electronic I'm guessing.

Although you are putting the charger on the battery I'd check to see if the battery is failing.
Also put meter on generator output. Maybe output is being dumpted by bad zener.

Bob
 
Put a meter on the battery and rev to see output from stator. If it is not moviing up to 13 or 14 volts dc, your stator may on it's way out or your lead wires may be compromised.

If a bad stator is the issue, get the hi output stator and a Pedtronics unit. You will then have ample charge at idle, even with the lights on.
 
I had these symptoms, battery was on its way out and voltage was no climbing with the revs as normal so the red light was staying on longer, new battery cured it.
 
kommando said:
I had these symptoms, battery was on its way out and voltage was no climbing with the revs as normal so the red light was staying on longer, new battery cured it.
Click to expand...
What do the voltages read with the new battery? Can you start it, remove a battery wire and take a reading of just the stator?
 
kommando said:
I had these symptoms, battery was on its way out and voltage was no climbing with the revs as normal so the red light was staying on longer, new battery cured it.
Click to expand...


I would double check that your stator is charging your battery when the bike is at idle.
 
Is it possible you have a solid-state ignition assimilator? Mine has a aftermarket SS assimilator which was recommended on this board. It works great, but the light coming on dimly at idle is a normal characteristic.
 
I want to get this sorted out eventually and must budget accordingly .
Here was a wishlist of items I need if you guys have recommendations

1) A battery (might sound easy but may possibly eliminate symtoms) Any preferred model you guys using?
2) Zener diode removal (Dont understand them and dont trust them) i think
http://www.rgmmotors.co.uk had this thingy item code 730 part PB00108
item described as " BOYER POWER BOX REPLACES ZENER DIODES RECTIFIER 2MC CAPACITOR ETC WORKS WITH OR WITHOUT BATTERY"
Starting sequence


3) Electronic ignition (Going to replace the boyer unit as it dosent favor low voltages.The electric start will be fixed too eventually so I'm thinking about voltage drop.Trispark seems to be the most favored?.
4) 3 phase alternator (only scratching the surface here havent looked in to it hopefully theres one outstanding model?)
5) someone mentioned "solid-state ignition assimilator" is that the same as the boyer unit?
 
1. A good jell type battery sized for the Your machine. Approx. $50
2. Pedtrinic 200w Regulator/Rectifier $50
3. Pazon Sure Fire $132 + shipping directly from Pazon.
4. 180w or 200w Single phase stator (will match the 200w Pedtronics unit). $100 approx.
5. With the stuff mentioned above, the Zenor unit, Regulator, Battery Eliminator and warning light Assimilator will no longer needed.
This is an excellent setup that will not break the bank so much, will bring 13 to 14 volts at under 1000 rpm and create dependability in your electrical system. You can keep your current rotor.

If money is no object you can triple your expence at minimum buy going with a 3 phase system, Trispark ignition and a Power box. I feel this is overkill even with an eletric start cause if the battery is up to snuff, the starter will perform and if something goes bad (god forbid) the higher level of expence will continue.
 
pvisseriii said:
4. 180w or 200w Single phase stator (will match the 200w Pedtronics unit). $100 approx.
Click to expand...


As speirmoor's is an 850 MkIII model, it should already be fitted with a single phase 180w RM23 alternator (with a half wave rectifier and double Zeners originally) so if it's working properly then there's no need to change it.
 
If you want to minimize expense now, I would do the following:

1. Replace the battery with a good gel or glasmat type. I could't find what model Norton you have. If it is a Mk3, you need an 18 A-h 300 CCA battery; a Yuasa will fit (barely) and set you back $90. If you don't have an ES, you can do with a smaller unit, say 14 A-h, or even 12. There are many suppliers online selling in the $50-$80 range.

2. Replace the Boyer with a Pazon. Order it directly from the manufacturer.

3. Replace the diode and rectifier with a modern power module. As many on this forum have stated, there are several single phase units available in the $70-$100 range.

I don't see the logic in replacing the stator with another single-phase unit. At best you'll duplicate the original Norton power delivery system, of which riders have been complaining for decades. If you decide that the charging system needs help after doing the three upgrades above, buy a three-phase stator AND a new rotor (the rotor loses some magnetic strength over time). A SPARX system will run $250 or so. You'll need a 3-phase regulator/rectifier box as well. Doing the whole enchilada (items 1-3 plus 3-phase) will run 600 bucks.

Life's short. Why deal with weak electrics?
 
L.A.B. said:
pvisseriii said:
4. 180w or 200w Single phase stator (will match the 200w Pedtronics unit). $100 approx.
Click to expand...


As speirmoor's is an 850 MkIII model, it should already be fitted with a single phase 180w RM23 alternator (with a half wave rectifier and double Zeners originally) so if it's working properly then there's no need to change it.
Click to expand...

Apparently that is not the case. Something is wrong in his system and i don't think its the battery or the Zeners, do you? The rectifier, on the other hand, could be faulty due to the fact that a charger is plugged in daily and if the pole get reversed once in a while, the rectifier will fail. The stator, if oem, should keep up if good. If the po or even current owner put in a lessor stator, it would take some time to recover before light could be turn on without stalling.
We all love originality but when it comes to the electrical system, there is just simply a better and safer way to go. This man wants to ride, not show how pure he can be.
 
Try disconnecting the 2MC blue capacitor. If you disconnect the 2 brown/blue wires then connect them together (without being connected to the capacitor) for the test. The blue capacitor terminal is used as a tie point. Cap could become electrically leaky and now dragging down the DC voltage.
 
pvisseriii said:
L.A.B. said:
pvisseriii said:
4. 180w or 200w Single phase stator (will match the 200w Pedtronics unit). $100 approx.
Click to expand...


As speirmoor's is an 850 MkIII model, it should already be fitted with a single phase 180w RM23 alternator (with a half wave rectifier and double Zeners originally) so if it's working properly then there's no need to change it.
Click to expand...

Apparently that is not the case. Something is wrong in his system and i don't think its the battery or the Zeners, do you?
Click to expand...

Yes, I do think it could be the battery or Zener/s.


pvisseriii said:
The rectifier, on the other hand, could be faulty due to the fact that a charger is plugged in daily and if the pole get reversed once in a while, the rectifier will fail. The stator, if oem, should keep up if good. If the po or even current owner put in a lessor stator, it would take some time to recover before light could be turn on without stalling.
We all love originality but when it comes to the electrical system, there is just simply a better and safer way to go. This man wants to ride, not show how pure he can be.
Click to expand...

Yes. it could also be a faulty rectifier,-but there are too many "if"s? I'd rather see some testing done to try to establish facts about the actual state of the charging system components, and nothing remotely to do with "purity".
 
speirmoor said:
swooshdave said:
speirmoor said:
Will get some troubleshooting done over the weekend.Talking about the rectifier if I was to replace it
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PODT...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3caca16cae
is this the thing?
Click to expand...

It will but I believe it also will replace the zeners, if you haven't already.

btw, Old Britts has the single phase one for $35. Depends on which alternator you have.

http://www.oldbritts.com/17_17104.html
Click to expand...
Excellent!
Click to expand...
Take heed speirmoor. That unit is 160watt unit. If you have a stock stator(180w), you may want this one.
http://www.oldbritts.com/17_17106.html
It is the 200watt unit is better suited for your machines stator. It you want to upgrade to a higher output stator you will be ready.
Yes L.A.B., I agree that more testing is needed, but if he is like me, I say screw that old technology and lets get get current(pun).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Head
starting sequence
3 4 5 6 7 8
Replies
147
Views
6,671
concours
concours
S
Hard starting, trouble idling, boyer failing?
2
Replies
29
Views
654
Torontonian
Torontonian
D
Use of choke when warm starting my 850 with mikuni
Replies
16
Views
361
Mart UK
Mart UK
Anvill
Rattling noise when starting
Replies
11
Views
319
Anvill
Anvill
N
850 Commando won't start, just quit - mid ride.
2
Replies
24
Views
1,325
marshg246
marshg246
Back
Top