sick feeling

motorson · Jun 14, 2013

You did real good! I like the part about the tube on the shop vac. I also like the one piece repair better than a Heli-coil even though I have had real good luck with Heli-coils. I preload them in the direction of force as the lock tight hardens so that the coil is seated on metal and not hovering in the middle with lock tight on both sides.

Nater_Potater · Jun 14, 2013

htown16 said:
For the final clean out I rigged a small hose on my shop vac that could reach down inside the cylinder. I could see how the air compressor on the exhaust would help but I just have a small tire inflator compressor.

'Good to hear! I'm glad you went with the one-piece insert. In fact, a lot of aircraft engines used to install these direct from the factory.
Suck, blow; it's just a figure of speech, as I was told... Nathan

htown16 · Jun 15, 2013

New plug in with a dose of anti-seize, torqued to 18 ft/#. Went for a nice breakfast ride this morning. Seems to be running fine.

Hobot · Jun 15, 2013

Yea on a refreshing new success fling. I've been using the greasy silver anti-seeze just fine on everything with spark plugs but will try the Milk of Magnesia on next set. MoM has worked well on the exhaust rings and no melt out drips to wipe up.

grandpaul · Jun 15, 2013

Vince, did that kit come with the stepped threading tool and the shouldered setting drift?

htown16 · Jun 15, 2013

Yes, it has the stepped tap and set drift. Bought it at Napa. 14mm/12 Save A Thread. You need to use the longest insert in the pack on a Norton. Should just match the plug threads in length. Thread it completely on the plug and put some red loctite on the insert, use the plug to thread the insert in. Give the loctite some time to set up before removing the plug to keep the insert from backing out with plug. Then use the set drift to stake it in place.
Mitch

Nater_Potater · Jun 15, 2013

hobot said:
I've been using the greasy silver anti-seeze just fine on everything with spark plugs but will try the Milk of Magnesia on next set. MoM has worked well on the exhaust rings and no melt out drips to wipe up.

Hold on! I've never heard of the MoM anti-seize shtick. Tell me more.

concours · Jun 17, 2013

Nater_Potater said:
hobot said:

I've been using the greasy silver anti-seeze just fine on everything with spark plugs but will try the Milk of Magnesia on next set. MoM has worked well on the exhaust rings and no melt out drips to wipe up.

Click to expand...

Hold on! I've never heard of the MoM anti-seize shtick. Tell me more.

We used it assembling brand new CF-34 turbine engines, igniter plugs, test port plugs, etc. Works great.

Bob Z. · Jun 18, 2013

This is a fairly old technique to repair damaged 14mm spark plug threads in aluminum heads.
The instructions clearly state to remove the steel gasket from the spark plug before using it to thread and torque the
repair insert.

acotrel · Jun 18, 2013

I will bet you feel really good about achieving that. Was it worth feeling sick over ? With all these things, you just start at the beginning and work to the end. Yesterday I finally got off my backside and got the TTI 6 speeder apart and fitted the replacement selector drum. The hardest part was getting the inner case off. Bruce Verdon had used strong sticky stuff, and I had to bash the mainshaft with a rubber mallet to break it free. Then it was all fingers and thumbs and bits falling off as I removed shafts from the cassette. It's all back together, and turning over all gears working , with the gear change now in the correct direction. And I feel really good about it. I'm glad I didn't try to do the job in the hot weather.

htown16 · Jun 18, 2013

That Delco insert seems to be made a little differently than the Helicoil one. The Delco one doesn't seem to have the knurled locking rings on the top that you seat with the step drift. It also looks like it has a lip on insert that would tighten against the top of the head. With the Helicoil, you really don't torque the insert down. As a matter of fact you can't, it would just keep threading into the head as it lacks the lip that would act as a stop. Thats why there is no need to remove the washer. The time sert appears to use a combination it has the lip on the top and also is expanded at the base with a tool to lock it in place. The time sert tap cuts a recess into the top of the threads for the lip to sit in.

htown16 · Sep 22, 2014

Well as much is I hate to admit a mistake, I feel like I ought to do some due diligence in case someone references this thread. After several thousand miles riding with no problems I felt like it was time to check the plugs. Unfortunately, the Helicoil insert came out with the plug, in fact it was still tightly screwed on to it. To be fair at it looked like at one time someone had welded up the plug hole and redrilled and threaded it. They hadn't even cut a recess in the top and the plug tip was up in the head. When I had the valves done I had a recess cut and hoped for the best. Don't know if the welding changed the metallurgy or not. I can see some small voids in the thread wall, don't know if these are original to the casting or part of the welding fix.
Anyway, short of scrapping the head I'm trying a time-sert. They make a special kit for fixing Helicoil inserts that have failed called a Big Cert. Not cheap, 265$, hope I can resell it. I just finished installing the insert today and everything went well. I like the fact the insert has a lip at the top that seats in a chamfer you cut in the top of the hole. The running the expander tool through that expands the bottom of the insert also seems more positive than trying to use a driver to expand the ring on the top of the Helicoil insert. One other note, the time-sert came with high temp Loctite 266 supposedly good to 450F. I think when I did the Helicoil I used ordinary red loctite.
Well here's to hoping she stays put or else I'll be dragging my spare head out.

Nater_Potater · Sep 22, 2014

htown16 said:
Anyway, short of scrapping the head I'm trying a time-sert. They make a special kit for fixing Helicoil inserts that have failed called a Big Cert.

Bummer! As long as you're not too close to the valve seats, you should be okay. How close is too close, you might ask? Hm-m-m, well... About that close...

Here, you can see the proximity of the plug to the valves seats, in which you can use the distance between intake and exhaust for a comfortable distance gauge.

Don't stress too much if it's a bit less than this, as oversize valves/seats are routinely being installed in these heads without issue (within reason). btw, I swiped this image from Click out of Ireland. Thanks for that, Kevin!

Nathan

comnoz · Sep 22, 2014

jaydee75 said:
What would Jim C do?
Jaydee

I would install a tapered bronze insert. That keeps the insert away from the valve seat and conducts heat much better than a steel insert so you don't end up with a hot plug. Jim

john robert bould · Sep 24, 2014

You will have no problems with the expander type...happy riding.

htown16 said:
Well as much is I hate to admit a mistake, I feel like I ought to do some due diligence in case someone references this thread. After several thousand miles riding with no problems I felt like it was time to check the plugs. Unfortunately, the Helicoil insert came out with the plug, in fact it was still tightly screwed on to it. To be fair at it looked like at one time someone had welded up the plug hole and redrilled and threaded it. They hadn't even cut a recess in the top and the plug tip was up in the head. When I had the valves done I had a recess cut and hoped for the best. Don't know if the welding changed the metallurgy or not. I can see some small voids in the thread wall, don't know if these are original to the casting or part of the welding fix.
Anyway, short of scrapping the head I'm trying a time-sert. They make a special kit for fixing Helicoil inserts that have failed called a Big Cert. Not cheap, 265$, hope I can resell it. I just finished installing the insert today and everything went well. I like the fact the insert has a lip at the top that seats in a chamfer you cut in the top of the hole. The running the expander tool through that expands the bottom of the insert also seems more positive than trying to use a driver to expand the ring on the top of the Helicoil insert. One other note, the time-sert came with high temp Loctite 266 supposedly good to 450F. I think when I did the Helicoil I used ordinary red loctite.
Well here's to hoping she stays put or else I'll be dragging my spare head out.

sick feeling

Similar threads