sick feeling

htown16 · Jun 12, 2013

Went to titen up my rh plug and the wrench kept spinning. I knew the threads were starting to go and I guess now there gone. What's the best option? Rebuilt engine with just a thousand miles on it.

pete.v · Jun 12, 2013

htown16 said:
Went to titen up my rh plug and the wrench kept spinning. I knew the threads were starting to go and I guess now there gone. What's the best option? Rebuilt engine with just a thousand miles on it.

Pull head and replace both side with timeserts. Replace head on bike and ride on.

DogT · Jun 12, 2013

Be glad it wasn't your old VW Beetle. Talk about a job.

Dave
69S

rwalker28 · Jun 12, 2013

htown16 said:
Went to titen up my rh plug and the wrench kept spinning. I knew the threads were starting to go and I guess now there gone. What's the best option? Rebuilt engine with just a thousand miles on it.

Man, just reading that gives me a sick feeling. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

htown16 · Jun 12, 2013

Looking at the different thread repair kits. Anyone have any experience with the Helicoil Sav a thread.
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/mc-ho ... dium=email

Nater_Potater · Jun 12, 2013

Yeah, it's a sick feeling, for sure. If you aren't too squemish, I have saved aluminum heads with Helicoil inserts, but there's a couple of extra steps you need to take; one, turn the engine until the exhaust valve is beginning to open. Make darn sure it's not anywhere near the spark plug hole, as you'll catch it with the tap! Two, connect a continuous air supply (your air compressor) to that exhaust pipe's exit. I usually wrap the nozzle with a shop rag, then duct tape the whole mess to the back of the muffler. Once you're to this point, you should notice a fair amount of air exiting the damaged spark plug hole. Third, pack the flutes of the tap with a heavy-bodied grease (chassis grease works great). Tap, clean, and install Helicoil or Timesert as you normally would.
It's not as sure as pulling the head, but I figure that if it doesn't work, I'd have to pull the head anyway, so it's worth the gamble to me. I have done this successfully on both two- and four-stroke engines, with no dire consequences (yet). And, if you weren't before, using anti-seize on the plug threads will go a long way in avoiding this in the future. That, and a torque wrench... Redundant, I'm sure; but I have to say it.
As far as the Helicoil inserts, the only caveat I have for them is that sinking feeling when you break off the tab from the bottom of your freshly re-thrreaded hole, and you realize a magnet will not pull that same tab from out of your cylinder, due to the fact that it's stainless! Get a good grip with your best needle-nose pliers. Nathan

Norton Dave · Jun 13, 2013

I would suggest looking at a product called KEENSERTS they were made specific to repair VW heads one major advantage is like other methods helicoils and timeserts they do not require lifting the head to repair but the KEENSERTS have three special stakeing pins once fitted to secure it from ever coming loose great solution .

concours · Jun 13, 2013

Nater_Potater said:
Yeah, it's a sick feeling, for sure. If you aren't too squemish, I have saved aluminum heads with Helicoil inserts, but there's a couple of extra steps you need to take; one, turn the engine until the exhaust valve is beginning to open. Make darn sure it's not anywhere near the spark plug hole, as you'll catch it with the tap! Two, connect a continuous air supply (your air compressor) to that exhaust pipe's exit. I usually wrap the nozzle with a shop rag, then duct tape the whole mess to the back of the muffler. Once you're to this point, you should notice a fair amount of air exiting the damaged spark plug hole. Third, pack the flutes of the tap with a heavy-bodied grease (chassis grease works great). Tap, clean, and install Helicoil or Timesert as you normally would.
It's not as sure as pulling the head, but I figure that if it doesn't work, I'd have to pull the head anyway, so it's worth the gamble to me. I have done this successfully on both two- and four-stroke engines, with no dire consequences (yet). And, if you weren't before, using anti-seize on the plug threads will go a long way in avoiding this in the future. That, and a torque wrench... Redundant, I'm sure; but I have to say it.
As far as the Helicoil inserts, the only caveat I have for them is that sinking feeling when you break off the tab from the bottom of your freshly re-thrreaded hole, and you realize a magnet will not pull that same tab from out of your cylinder, due to the fact that it's stainless! Get a good grip with your best needle-nose pliers. Nathan

Bravo!

john robert bould · Jun 13, 2013

Dont like helicoils, fit the bronze insert's that are taperd and require swageing in .

kommando · Jun 13, 2013

The coiled helicoils creates a hot spot where the tang breaks off giving a pre ignition magnet, a solid insert is best for a sparkplug hole.

batrider · Jun 13, 2013

It is much easier to f this up rather than do it right. (My '61 Matchless has an insert that oozes oil. Was like that when I got it.)

I'd pull the head and send it to Jim Comstock for fixin' right but that's just me.

jaydee75 · Jun 13, 2013

What would Jim C do?
Jaydee

bwolfie · Jun 13, 2013

jaydee75 said:
What would Jim C do?
Jaydee

Funny, WWJC do, I bet he can walk on water too

acotrel · Jun 13, 2013

I hate anything which means I have to get my little pinkies greasy. With something like that it pays to do the job properly, so just start at the beginning and work methodically to the end, and you will gain personal satisfaction from a reliable, good performing machine. If I have a real problem with my bike, I usually re -engineer using best practice . I'd remove the head to do that repair. So just put your brain in neutral and work carefully so you don't damage anything while you are doing the job. It is not something to feel sick about, it is a simple mechanical problem and you are quite capable of fixing it. Take the head to an auto engine repair shop and ask them what they can do for you, and choose the best option. The swaged brass inset sounds good to me, I've seen helicoils unwind as a plug is removed.

Torontonian · Jun 13, 2013

Helicoils are bad news ,I've had one let-go on an R/6 and spend time looking for the flying plug in a ditch in flat Sasketchewan. Found it with the help of nice native americans (Canadians ?) Duct-taped the puppy into place until Winterpeg help.

laurentdom · Jun 14, 2013

Hi,

I would take off the head and do the job as per the safest procedure.

But if for any reason yoy can't take off the head, here is a trick that some old mechanics use (in addition to the previous suggestion of using an air compressor to blow out the residues):

Put some amount of "as sticky as possible" grease on the tool used to make the helicoil thread so that alloy chips and other residues stick to the tool.
Then take off the tool carefully to avoid the chips falling into the engine.

Hope to be clear enough and that it helps!

L.

ashman · Jun 14, 2013

Its not hard to pull the head off, under a hour, get it fixed properly, don't f..k around and its not hard to put the head back on, if you have all the right tools its not a big job, a few hours and a few beers inbetween (just don't work on it if you had too many beers), but realy its not a hard job even if you have to send it out to fix the problem

Ashley

Hobot · Jun 14, 2013

UGh head not hard but for the push rod puzzle that beats me every time to take most the time of head removal. Most like me use zip ties to hold up once ya do get em up all the way to clear barrel. I put back in the oil banjo bolts to bungee or zip tie head up to diddle push rods. Start with the intake push rod up first.

OzT · Jun 14, 2013

If it helps I've helicoiled my Matchless head, filing off the snap point, and it's held for nearly 30 years, and that 500 single gives a thump on compression stroke. Good luck whichever way you go!

htown16 · Jun 14, 2013

Job done. Used the Helicoil Sava thread kit which has an insert instead of a coil and did it with the head in place. No real issues. Basically followed these instructions.
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/mc-ho ... dium=email
I think the key is to keep backing the tap out and cleaning it off as you go along. I must have done it four or five times. Also, use the grease soak rag. It picked up a couple of pieces of swarf that fell through. For the final clean out I rigged a small hose on my shop vac that could reach down inside the cylinder. I could see how the air compressor on the exhaust would help but I just have a small tire inflator compressor.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

sick feeling

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