P11 basket case

Those heat guards look good, especially with the finned rocker spindle covers. Now you need to get the finned rocker box covers. ;-)

Vinyl in the garage. Nice. I used to have a TT in the garage when I lived in Seattle. I had a few nice records sprout legs...

gortnipper said:

Those heat guards look good, especially with the finned rocker spindle covers. Now you need to get the finned rocker box covers. ;-)

Vinyl in the garage. Nice. I used to have a TT in the garage when I lived in Seattle. I had a few nice records sprout legs...

Click to expand...

I considered the finned rocker covers. Right now I just want to get my primary drive sorted out, but the parts I need are all still a week out.

The record player and records are Motorson's. He's built a pretty decent sound system with lots of options, I normally just use the radio.

Junglebiker said:

More exhaust pics. How noisy is a P11 with straight pipes? The silencers I got don't look like they would do very much, and they run into my rear shocks.

View attachment 95808
View attachment 95809

Strightened out my previously bent shift lever and used a thin washer to take some of the excess play out of the folding part of my kick start lever.
View attachment 95811

Considering an alternate means of mounting the rear fender--probably I won't go this route, but will instead do a little more bending on the cheap reproduction rear frame loop until it looks right to me.
View attachment 95812

Click to expand...

Apologies if I'm preaching to the converted (Granny/eggs etc..) but the hi pipes did have quite a lengthy spacer at the rear to move the silencers out, though whether they'd clear your choice of shock or not...??

Just sayin

Looking back through my library of P11 pics, I see that the exhausts do hang out there quite a bit wider than I would have assumed. It's funny how you don't notice these details until you are actually working on THAT area of your own bike.

As for the shocks, the one(s) on there right now may or may not make the final cut. I have a set of Works Performance shocks I would like to use if the guy rebuilding them will ever get them finished. If I do use these ACT shocks (originally intended for an Arctic Cat snowmobile) I'll need to find some lighter springs for sure.

Working out how I want to use my vintage rocker oilers. I picked up a Commando oil line kit and it looks like it will work. The oilers were originally fitted with barb fittings and would not originally work with banjo bolts and copper washers--I filed the surface flat and perpendicular to the hole so that the copper washers on the banjo bolt would seal (not quite done yet--needs just a little more filing). I also had to remove some material from the back side of the oiler to clear the crossover line.

The next thing I have to figure out is how to seal the oiler to the head and also how to locate the rocker spindles. Not sure what I'm going to do about that yet. Maybe a roll pin set into the oiler and sticking out far enough to engage the slot in the end of the spindle? The screws I'm using in this pic are not the ones I plan to use on the final assembly. I'll probably use something with a hex head and copper washers .

Also tried fitting the oil tank to see how that goes. It was a little bit of a chore to get in there, but it's in now. Unfortunately I don't have any of the mounts, so I'll have to fabricate them or at least a reasonable facsimile of them. Thank goodness there's a set of excellent photos here on the site so that I know what they are supposed to look like. I also don't have any of the oil lines, so I'll need to figure out something there, too.

If that is the later type oil tank then I can send a drawing of the clamps.

The bike in post #3 was my inspiration for these mods:
- inlet manifolds from Triumph. That solution put the carbs more level and has a simple rubber mount.
- Harley footrests
- G/B cover on rev counter drive



Maybe an inspiration for you too.
Peter

Junglebiker said:

I filed the surface flat and perpendicular to the hole so that the copper washers on the banjo bolt would seal

Click to expand...

If you run into issues with the copper washers sealing, try using Dowty washers instead.
Amazon product ASIN B07CHJBCX3

vercu said:

The bike in post #3 was my inspiration for these mods:
- inlet manifolds from Triumph. That solution put the carbs more level and has a simple rubber mount.

Click to expand...

Would you please show details of the inlet manifolds? Where is the rubber mount? I couldn't detect it. Do you know the Triumph part number?

Very nice bike btw. I like your clean timing cover!

- Knut

vercu said:

If that is the later type oil tank then I can send a drawing of the clamps.

The bike in post #3 was my inspiration for these mods:
- inlet manifolds from Triumph. That solution put the carbs more level and has a simple rubber mount.
- Harley footrests
- G/B cover on rev counter drive

Maybe an inspiration for you too.
Peter

Click to expand...

Yes, definitely some good things to consider there--I like the Triumph intake idea. What kickstart lever is that?

That is a RGM kickstart lever 050179. And yes it makes a difference.

The inlet manifold was fitted for a short period maybe 72-73 to T120 Triumphs according to SERVICE BULLETIN No. 402

The following parts are needed:
2x 71-3302 INLET MANIFOLD (ANGLED) - T120V '71
4x 21-1996 STUD - MANIFOLD to carb fixing for 71-3302
4x 70-2962 STUD - 5/16" CEI/BSW X 1 7/ 32"(18TPI) MANIFOLD-CARB
4x 70-9555 cup washers (OD16, ID 14,2 hole 7,1- thickness 0,6 height 2,1 depth 1,5)
4x 70-9554 washer ("O-rings" that go under the cup washers 70-9555) OD14xID8x3dia
2x 70-9711 CARBURETTER FLANGE "O" RING THICK 1969on (2,5mm thick)


There ought to be a small gap between the carb flange and the manifold, if the correct O-ring is fitted. (and the correct washers, cups, nuts, etc.
Its almost impossible to overtighten this arrangement because the cups are against the studs and the rubber washer provides the tension.

Vercu, thanks for sharing! This looks a bit like the rubber mounted handlebars which Triumph advocated. How is your experience with this mounting ?

The avoidance of movements between flange and the carb appears a bit optimistic to me. How is interference between studs and carb flange avoided (is there a rubber sleeve inside)? Are studs (21-1996) anchored in bonded bushings? Surely those small O-rings will have a tiny resilience, especially when compressed?

- Knut

Knut, valid points. There are no bonded bushings and no rubber sleeves.
As I already said it is a simple system. Triumph did not used it on later models. Correct me if I am wrong.
I have this setup for 9 years/about 10000km on the P11 without any problems.
But I have been told that P11s may have carburation problems due to the steep angle and the short spacer used.
Especially when driving in town on hot days.

Spigot mounted carburetion is the best method I've found on twin, single, and inline 4 motorcycles. Flat flange and o-ring sealed carburetion made it to my I'm not doing that on an old Norton ever again list. I don't think a restomod requires Amal carburetors or anything resembling one. That's just me though.

I made these intake manifolds cave man style from Commando MkII spigot intake manifolds. Trouble free no air leaks rubber mount. Automotive 1.5" fuel tank filler hose and some clamps were used. Not too hard to do, but you need a carburetor with a spigot mount. You could reshape the flanges on the carburetors you have and make it all work. These do drop the carburetors down and they run cooler being further from the head. You would also have more top end with the longer manifold, but not sure if you care much about that kind of thing.







End product had the balance tubes on the bottom removed and a set installed up top. 35mm FCRs are attached to the intake. The head seen above is a Commando head and not the head I am using on the P11.

For me getting the oil tank on and off is much easier from the ass end with the rear wheel, fender, seat, and right-side shock removed. Still takes some effort getting it in place. You'll want to do it the easiest way possible once you get that oil tank painted. If you are not going to just shoot it with clear satin and go for that old bike patina look.

I've only got this month left to get this thing going before I head overseas to the UK. After 5 months there we'll be back over here again for a few months, but I'm not sure how much work I'll be able to do at that time, then after that back to the south pacific, (where I normally work) I think for 2 years this time.

Got my engine/primary case spacer today! From the photos I aw on eBay I assumed it was alumin(i)um, but no, this one is steal and appears to be NOS, maybe? The packaging certainly is very much like NOS 196's Land Rover parts which I have quite a few of, right down to the bug eaten paper, so? There was a handwritten price of $9.83 on it, but no clue when that was written on there. It appears to have been cut out of a bigger piece of steel with a torch or maybe a plasma arc cutter, but no matter how they did it they must have used a fixture or or had some sort of automated process, as they are very nice cuts. Like another spacer mentioned in this thread, it appears to have a substantial zinc coating for corrosion resistance.

Once the spacer was in, the inner primary cover could be installed and the NEB clutch. @Schwany how did you adjust the springs on your clutch? Are they meant to be tightened up until they bottom? That seems like it might just coil bind the springs, so I didn't do that. right now I just have each nut screwed on a little ways, but I'm nervous about them and am wondering if I am missing something.


once the primary cover was on, I finally adjusted my valves and put the valve covers on. I don't have a pic of it, but I also got my 2nd rocker oiler modified to fit. Now all I need to do is figure out a way to keep the spindles from rotating and gaskets to keep it all from leaking.

Schwany said:

Spigot mounted carburetion is the best method I've found on twin, single, and inline 4 motorcycles. Flat flange and o-ring sealed carburetion made it to my I'm not doing that on an old Norton ever again list. I don't think a restomod requires Amal carburetors or anything resembling one. That's just me though.

I made these intake manifolds cave man style from Commando MkII spigot intake manifolds. Trouble free no air leaks rubber mount. Automotive 1.5" fuel tank filler hose and some clamps were used. Not too hard to do, but you need a carburetor with a spigot mount. You could reshape the flanges on the carburetors you have and make it all work. These do drop the carburetors down and they run cooler being further from the head. You would also have more top end with the longer manifold, but not sure if you care much about that kind of thing.

End product had the balance tubes on the bottom removed and a set installed up top. 35mm FCRs are attached to the intake. The head seen above is a Commando head and not the head I am using on the P11.

For me getting the oil tank on and off is much easier from the ass end with the rear wheel, fender, seat, and right-side shock removed. Still takes some effort getting it in place. You'll want to do it the easiest way possible once you get that oil tank painted. If you are not going to just shoot it with clear satin and go for that old bike patina look.

Click to expand...

I agree with you on the superiority of spigot mount over flange mount! However for now I plan to use a cheap set of modified flange mount Keihin knock-offs I got off of eBay. I saw a man with a set of these on his Triumph race bike and he seemed quite happy with them. They appear to be well made, and certainly the carburetor they were based on is a good one.

Eventually I'll switch to something else, I have several interesting options that might be fun to experiment with, just to see what they are like--you know, stuff like a Pos-a-fuel, or a Blue Magnum, or maybe an Edelbrock Quicksilver II. Or maybe I'll stick to something solid like a Dellorto. Shoot, I even have a NIB 1960's vintage Amal 930.

I'm afraid paint will have to wait for now. Maybe I'll do a coat of cheap spray paint, but I think that's all I'll have time for this time.

Heat shield is cool.

Have not installed the NEB clutch yet. Been at a week long party. Recovery required.

My plan is to screw the adjusters down to the top of the spacer tubes that slide down over the studs. The springs get compressed .260" when the adjuster is screwed all the way down to the top of the spacer according to my measurements. Not enough to bind the coil. The spring is .970" or there about. Harbor Freight digital caliper used.

Unfortunately, that clutch comes with no instructions, so I'm faking it till I make it.

That is the right spacer for the primary. Mine looks like it is the same with the chop shop cut.

Schwany said:

Heat shield is cool.

Have not installed the NEB clutch yet. Been at a week long party. Recovery required.

My plan is to screw the adjusters down to the top of the spacer tubes that slide down over the studs. The springs get compressed .260" when the adjuster is screwed all the way down to the top of the spacer according to my measurements. Not enough to bind the coil. The spring is .970" or there about. Harbor Freight digital caliper used.

Unfortunately, that clutch comes with no instructions, so I'm faking it till I make it.

That is the right spacer for the primary. Mine looks like it is the same with the chop shop cut.

Click to expand...

Good to know about the lack of instructions--I assumed that mine had gotten lost somewhere along the way--there's always that danger when I buy stuff online from the other side of the world years before I will actually see it.

I never thought that I would ever be a fan of a single Mikuni on a Norton, but now having experienced a couple that were properly setup and jetted, I am becoming a believer. The one on my purple bike is nearly flawless.

FWIW

vercu said:

But I have been told that P11s may have carburation problems due to the steep angle and the short spacer used.
Especially when driving in town on hot days.

Click to expand...

Interestring. This should affect the Atlas and G15 series as well, as they used the same spacer/manifold.
030561 Spacer/manifold is merely 1/2" thick. I don't think the manifold as such is the problem, and there was a phenolic heat insulator too (NM23358).
Rather, due to proximity, I think heat pick up from the head to the carb body by radiation may have evaporated fuel while it was in the float chamber, making the fuel/air mixture very weak.
The problem would exacerbate during town riding on hot days. I have no personal experience with this though, but it sounds plausible.

Does the stock P11 air filter fit the frame when using Commando 28/30mm curved manifolds?

- Knut

Junglebiker said:

I agree with you on the superiority of spigot mount over flange mount! However for now I plan to use a cheap set of modified flange mount Keihin knock-offs I got off of eBay. I saw a man with a set of these on his Triumph race bike and he seemed quite happy with them. They appear to be well made, and certainly the carburetor they were based on is a good one.

Eventually I'll switch to something else, I have several interesting options that might be fun to experiment with, just to see what they are like--you know, stuff like a Pos-a-fuel, or a Blue Magnum, or maybe an Edelbrock Quicksilver II. Or maybe I'll stick to something solid like a Dellorto. Shoot, I even have a NIB 1960's vintage Amal 930.

I'm afraid paint will have to wait for now. Maybe I'll do a coat of cheap spray paint, but I think that's all I'll have time for this time.

Click to expand...

Old guy talk: If what you install initially for carburetion works, might as well just use it and save the money. Those Keihin knock offs are supposed to work. The flange is made of better material than Amal silly putty metal. They should not warp easily and hold a tune. However, I know it is hard to stop the modification bug once you have it.

I also cave man modified a set of MAP manifolds for Commando twin Mikuni carburetion for my P11. I modified the flange and turned them into spigot type at the right angle to mount the Mikuni's level on the upright motor. They worked really well. I still have that setup. Slightly more street friendly than the FCRs.

Get off the internet and get to work!