Oil filter quality

The way I was told to install a filter was to spin it on and when you get a bit of resistance that is the gasket, o-ring, what ever coming in contact with the block. Keep spinning and you will get great resistance that is the metal can coming in contact with the block. Then give it an extra tweak.

I don't think you could ever get the metal can to come in contact with the mounting surface using just your hand to snug the filter down which is all that is required or recommended by the automotive filter makers. Typically, the instructions on the box say 1/2 to 3/4 turn after the gasket hits the filter mount. If the mounting surface is in good shape (no nicks, dents, etc), a smear of oil on the rubber ring, as tight as you can get it using your hand(s) on the filter is plenty. Tightened per recommendations, you can often - though not always - remove it when the time comes using two hands if you can get them onto the filter. If not, a strap wrench will do the job. As others have noted, the K&N nut is a silly and obviously failure-prone downgrade to a very reliable component. OTOH, that is a common configuration for aircraft spin-ons so it's not like they can't be designed to be pretty-much bulletproof. But clearly KN doesn't meet that level of construction.

Sometimes you will see torque specs for spin ons in owners manuals , varying from 10 to 20 ft lbs but not consistently. Aircraft engines that I have worked on always had torque specs for them - either in the service manual or on the filter box - usually between 15-20 ft pounds. They often specifically state what kind of lubricant to put on the gasket for installation. Dow-Corning DC4 is the most commonly recommended. It makes subsequent removal much easier than using engine oil on the gasket. Of course, aircraft spin ons are always safety wired. The Norton hose clamp system, though not a secure as safety wire seems pretty good to me!

MexicoMike said:

I don't think you could ever get the metal can to come in contact with the mounting surface using just your hand to snug the filter down

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Perhaps it depends on the filter. I use Toyota filters on my Toyota and use the method I described as told to me by a Toyota mechanic.

MexicoMike said:

Dow-Corning DC4 is the most commonly recommended. It makes subsequent removal much easier than using engine oil on the gasket. Of course, aircraft spin ons are always safety wired.

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That is good to know, thanks!

One track association article announcing the aftermarket ban mentioned no filters without safety wire or restraining hose/band clamp. I guess our Nortons with the clamp were ahead of their time

I'm running a filter from a Norton supplier and it is branded "Norton". Just like rhe one on bike when I acquired it last year. Anyone know the correct size end cap/socket type removal tool to get for these? My Triumph Bonneville takes a smaller size. When taking the original filter off, I resorted to the old "screwdriver through the side wall" method which worked nicely.

Tornado , I apologize for my skepticism earlier !! the video you posted just struck me as posed / setup , sorry .....I have a Hi-Flo on Griso are there any known faults with this brand , the Ducati does have a torque spec for oil filter , I tighten half turn after gasket contact , remove with a strap wrench .... as I mentioned earlier so far so good ....
Craig

"Perhaps it depends on the filter. I use Toyota filters on my Toyota and use the method I described as told to me by a Toyota mechanic."

Certainly, if the filter is designed to work like that, it's a good way ensure a consistent pressure on the gasket in every installation as opposed to "1/2 to 3/4 turn" or "hand tight." Hand tight for me would result in a very different compression on the gasket compared to hand tight for a professional arm wrestler!

Yes, there are modern car filters that screw on until metal meets metal.

I’ve seen it on a Toyota and (I think) a Chrysler Neon.

Ah - that's the reason I'm not familiar with those...they are MODERN!

MexicoMike said:

Of course, aircraft spin ons are always safety wired.

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I am assuming that the filters for aircraft all ready come drilled for safety wire. I can just see some poor soul drilling a hole in his filter to safety wire it.

I have never heard of one that didn't have tabs for safety wire but who knows, there might be one somewhere. And, of course, I'm sure there are aircraft owners who buy car filters because they are much cheaper. Here's a typical aircraft filter: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/championfilter.php

Craig said:

Tornado , I apologize for my skepticism earlier !! the video you posted just struck me as posed / setup , sorry .....I have a Hi-Flo on Griso are there any known faults with this brand , the Ducati does have a torque spec for oil filter , I tighten half turn after gasket contact , remove with a strap wrench .... as I mentioned earlier so far so good ....
Craig

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No problems Man.
I'm used to hearing opposing opinions on these failures. One thread on TRat has a site supporter vendor chap defending K&N weld nut filters...he's "sold them for yrs, only a few reports of fails, buddies at K&N have dealt with it by the recall..". "All the fails are due to improper installs by incompetent owners. "
Yet, we have reports on the Google back to at least 2010, and new ones on fresh "unaffected " batches. I believe there is a class action suit started in the USA.

worntorn said:

The hex nut makes the filter easy to get off.
In some applications, for example Triumph Daytona 955i, the oil filter is surrounded by other items and pretty much impossible to get at with a standard filter wrench.

Glen

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My nephew has a Sprint 955i and I always use a cup-type filter wrench with a ratchet and extension to r&r. You certainly couldn't get your fingers in there to hand-tighten it.

Fast Eddie said:

I have always hated “Hand tight”. It is incredibly vague when you think about it. Perhaps the hex nut is to allow use of a torque wrench and thus a specific torque setting?

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Fram filters (another brand that has been vilified on the intertube) come with a wrinkle-finish gripping surface for "hand" tightening. I have used Fram in a pinch with no issues, but I always give them an extra half-rotation with a filter wrench.

""sold them for yrs, only a few reports of fails"

Hey, good to know it's top quality - only a few failures! Maybe that should be stated in their ads: "Our Filters are SO GOOD that we have only had a few failures!"

I've always done hand tight and I have never had a filter (of any brand) leak or fail. And yes, in years past I used plenty of Frams as well as most other brands you can find at a parts store. To be fair, most (all?) filter makers supply specific instructions for tightening - a smear of oil on the gasket and X turns after the gasket contacts the base. If you follow those instructions, you automatically apply the proper torque. I admit I just tighten them as tight as I can by hand and never pay any attention to how many turns that is.

Are oil filters generally placed on the return feeds or are there designs on the engine feed side? Just wonder what kind of pressures filters typically experience and if that plays into the weld point failures.

For other engines where it can be arranged then the filter can be after the pump in the feed line instead of the return. When you design an engine knowing it will have a filter this is the preferred option, when added later it goes when it can and normally in the return line as oil gear pumps do not suck well, only blow well.

Normally the feed side: pump to filter to oil galleries.

A rule of thumb for engine oil pressure is 10 PSI per 1000 RPM with the oil pressure relief valve limiting the pressure to whatever RPM the engine designer had in mind. IOW, an engine that spins to 8k RPM would be expected to show 80-85 PSI at that RPM. FWIW, the Baldwin spin-on filters that I used on our boat (same part number for both engine oil and transmission) handled the 150PSI+ of the transmission.

The opening video of this thread showed a “scientist” dissecting oil filters and railing on the poor quality of the Fram filter. I’m not for or against any filter and would like to relay my own experience with Fram filters, but have to shift from motorcycles to autos to accomplish that.

Purchased a new Toyota Sienna in 2005 and since that time have used solely Fram oil filters with 5000 mi oil change intervals. The vehicle has 365,000 mi on it at this juncture and uses ~ 1 pint of oil in 5000 mi. For the last 250,000 mi I’ve used cheap no-name Super Tech brand 5W-30 oil in it. Inspecting the filters after a change shows essentially no debris (shiny specs that would be visible to the naked eye in bright light). I also suspect that the engine has generated little debris since the initial break-in period. The Goodson tool pictured below makes dissecting an oil filter about as easy as opening a can of soup. My $0.02.

PS - the Fram filter internals look about the same as shown in the video. Had I used a good oil filter on it maybe it would only be consuming ½ pint of oil per 5,000 mi?

Cutting open oil filters doesn't "test" anything that an oil filter does. One can show that filter A appears to be better constructed than filter B, but the "test" of oil filters is how well they filter oil in the specific application.

I guess the reason nobody tests oil filters for their ability to actually flow/filter oil is because that would be difficult; cutting them open and saying, "This one appears to be better-constructed than that one" is easy! But it has nothing to do with filtering oil.