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Oil filter quality

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by worntorn, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Just like the various oil brands that run through them, they are not all of the same quality.

     
    Tigernut likes this.
  2. kommando

    kommando

    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    So Fram has not improved in the last 20 odd years then.
     
  3. JimC

    JimC

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Advertising works, whether it is Fram filters or Budweiser beer. Both poor quality, but huge sellers.
     
  4. MexicoMike

    MexicoMike

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Although I agree that the video would probably make anyone NOT buy a Fram, the test of an oil filter is how well it filters oil not whether it meets some arbitrary construction standards. Twisting the filter element in your hands is not "testing" anything that a filter does. IOW, does the NAPA Gold actually filter the oil better than the Fram? All filters have to meet an SAE spec(s). Of course, one filter might JUST meet the spec while another far exceeds it but nothing in the video actually measures anything about what an oil filter actually DOES as far as filtering oil.

    One would ASSUME that having more filter media area would make a filter last longer and/or filter smaller particles but without data of what each of these filters does in operation, I have no idea if that assumption is true. And, even if it does last longer, does that matter in regular operation? If one filter can filter effectively for 15000 miles while another can only do it for 7500 miles, it makes no difference if you change filters at 5000 miles. Again, with no data, it's not useful information. Yes, clearly the Fram is poorly constructed in comparison to the Napa Gold. But as long as it is strong enough to do it's job, it is strong enough. I'm not trying to defend Fram; but I am criticizing the "test method," which tests nothing that is actually applicable. It's like saying an 8 gauge wire is better than an 18 gauge wire because it can carry more current. But if the 18 gauge wire can carry the current required for the job, the 8 gauge doesn't do it "better."

    But yeah, having rust pre-installed in an oil filter is a bit off-putting! :)

    And no, I haven't used Frams for as long as I can remember; I use Baldwins despite the fact that based on some "efficiency tests" re how effectively filters remove particles, comes out lower in efficiency than just about any other commonly available filter. Go figure... In Baldwins defense, THEY claim that the efficiency figures are meaningless because companies toss them around without using a common standard so Baldwin doesn't state them in their advertising.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  5. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    I use Wix filters in all my vehicles. The fact that Wix makes filters for half a dozen other brands is enough for me.
     
  6. Craig

    Craig VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    K&N 0153 here think that correct # fits the Duc and the Commando .....
     
  7. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Watch out for K&N filters with welded on hex nut. There are many, many reports of these failing at the tack welds for the nut. Some fail due to the nut being used to torque on the filter...which is specifically called out against on the packaging ("Wrench Off" is plastered across the box). But, we have many first hand reports of owners stated they install as per instructions, nut not touched and only hand tightening. Yet failure still occured at welds. One case reported on TRat forums, owner notices his engine light on whole at speed on his modern Bonneville. He pulled up, rear wheel coated in oil. Diagnosis showed the filter failure. New filter, oil...engine seized with ten minutes. He got K&N to honour their warranty and got a replacement engine from them. A recall on these was issued a few months later (but only a limited batch). Also, most race tracks/racing authorities have banned these from tracks.
    Not sure if our classic engines have same concern since filter does not get the pressures seen in modern setups.
     
  8. Onder

    Onder

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Any idea if Mobil1 filters are any good?
     
  9. Craig

    Craig VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Knew someone would throw that out there .... after more oil/filter changes than I can count, I have had no issues , never on track , after 10 years on Ducati have not lost one , Norton much longer with same result .... guess I just have fools luck and missed the bad batch , which surprises me as I wonder ‘bout my luck constantly .....I do follow the instructions ....
    Craig
     
  10. MexicoMike

    MexicoMike

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    I have seen several bench tests claim that they had the best filtering efficiency around AND the highest pressure capability - 9x the current SAE requirements for pressure; supposedly way more than any other filter. Never used one and, in fact, don't think I have ever seen one! ;)

    To complicate the filter "question," is an X brand filter part number #12345 made in the USA better than the same brand part number 12345 filter made in a plant in China? Or Mexico? Or Poland, Or Brazil, etc? ;) The local parts store might have X brand filters that were made in Mexico this month and from Poland next month.

    I'm like Craig - never seen an oil filter failure of any kind that was the fault of an oil filter. I HAVE seen two oil filters burst but that was due to faulty oil pressure relief valve. With no relief valve, any oil pump can probably blow any filter apart...well maybe not a Mobil 1! ;)

    The cynic in me would classify a KN oil filter (never used one) the same way I classify their air filters...good at marketing not as good at filtering.

    And, yes, I may be installing my first ever KN air filter on a vehicle if I decide to use it on the Commando in lieu of the velocity stacks.
     
  11. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Some filters have very thin cans (cough, cough, Motorcraft, cough) and can partially collapse and leak when torqued a normal amount (only oil filter problem I've ever had), so I avoid them.
     
  12. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I'll just leave this here for those that use the K&N weld nut style:

     
  13. Craig

    Craig VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Did he just happen to have more than one camera going and track to himself .... wow !!!! thanks for sharing , any idea which tracks banned these dangerous grenade type oil filters ....
    Craig
     
  14. bill

    bill

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    if you crush it when tightening you have over torqued it. i have never seen a torque figure for an oil filter and hand tight is all it needs.

     
  15. Tornado

    Tornado VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic here, but nonetheless:

    https://midwestcaferacing.com/blog/2018/05/15/rules-update-kn-oil-filters/


    There are a few racing Org's that are banning use of all aftermarket oil filters including WMRRA.

    MotoAmerica and CVMA bans on aftermarket oil filters, what does this mean for WMRRA

    CVMA Banning All Aftermarket Oil Filters

    MotoAmerica Mandating OEM Oil Filters On Yamaha YZF-R1 Racebikes

    Plus there is K&N's recall on a specific batch...yet same type of failure reports existed years prior to that batch and we're still hearing of them on fresh batches.

    Seems like a bad idea generally. Why have nut on there when there are plenty of filter removal solutions available. Solution looking for an actual problem And, to expect the public to know to only use the nice handy nut in one direction (off) unlike every other nut they've encountered in their lives seems a bit optimistic.
     
    Nater_Potater, baz and Hortons Norton like this.
  16. Hortons Norton

    Hortons Norton

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    In the video it looks like the filter nut had been used to tighten it?
     
  17. robs ss

    robs ss VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    You can't tell - given the used filter was off the bike, maybe the spanner was only used to remove it?
     
  18. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Having changed hundreds of oil filters on dozens of cars, trucks and motorcycles and having only one failure tells me that Motorcraft filters are a little too delicate for my ham hands, so I'll choose not to use them. I did have a leak once after hand-tightening a filter, but a quick twist with a filter wrench cured it.

    If hand-tightening is enough, why does K&N (another brand I'll avoid) include a hex nut?
     
  19. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    I have always hated “Hand tight”. It is incredibly vague when you think about it. Perhaps the hex nut is to allow use of a torque wrench and thus a specific torque setting?
     
  20. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    The hex nut makes the filter easy to get off.
    In some applications, for example Triumph Daytona 955i, the oil filter is surrounded by other items and pretty much impossible to get at with a standard filter wrench.

    Glen
     

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