Norman White PR starting problems

SteveA said:
A fresh battery!

My battery will last a full weekend, but I choose to keep it topped up between sessions. And this is in no way unique to race bikes built by Norman. It is standard Norton twin race practice as used on race bikes built by Mick Hemmings, Steve Maney, Minnovation, NYC Norton, oh, and me!

Typically as battery voltage drops it will start to misfire at high RPM, unless you are foolish enough to use LiPo batteries....game over.
Click to expand...
That much I knew even with poop for brains. I thought he had some unique Norman magic I was unaware of. Thanks
 
Here's a long winded solution for you
Once you have done all the basics like checked the ignition timing is about right,the carbs are not blocked the plugs are sparking and the valve timing is correct
Maybe try the ignition from your roadster on it, try the carbs and manifolds from the roadster etc until it starts?
Long winded maybe but using components that you know work would take a few hours and at least you'd have a conclusion
I wouldn't send the carbs away to be cleaned not ultrasonically any way
The jets and ports of the carbs need to manually cleaned
 
That's the slow and certain way, often faster in the long run.
When I first fired up the 920 it wouldnt run below 3000 rpm.
It's all built from parts from that don't know each other, so the mind goes to all sorts of possibilities. Cam timing, ignition timing, a problem with the coil or the used $50 Boyer etc. etc. The carbs had me wondering as they were some slightly used Amals I bought 20 years ago and had never installed. I did go thru them to set float levels and so forth.

To rule out carbueration, I borrowed the MK3s carbs.
That cured it, the 920 then ran and idled perfectly.

Glen
 
Thanks for all the comments and, just for the record, both sets of spark plugs and both batteries (fully smart-charged between uses) have been swapped out between the racer and my Roadster - Roadster fires up first time with all of them, on the racer nothing but spluttering from the left cylinder leaving the spark plug black with soot while right cylinder spark plug looks as if it hasn't sparked at all with either set of plugs/battery. I have a totally new lithium-ion battery ordered but will have the carbs off and cleaned if that doesn't work and will post the results.
 
As mentioned by SteveA, Li batteries are not a good choice for total loss ign systems. It’s just not what they were designed for.

If both plugs are wet and one is black it sounds flooded (as mentioned by concours previously)... Try it with the choke on for a few spins to get fuel in, then with WOT (and no choke) to get fresh oxygen in.

Another old trick is to use hot plugs, meaning, heat them up with a blow torch, fit them and try starting as quickly as possible whilst still hot. The heat helps vaporise the fuel around the plug.

And… please help me understand… what have you got against buying NEW plugs ?? Swapping out used plugs between bikes is kinda ok when you’ve no choice, but with a job like this you need a box full of new plugs so you can ALWAYS ensure good, clean, dry plugs are being used (as already explained by SteveA).

Fouled and / or soaked plugs WILL NOT FIRE properly…
 
Last edited:
Story for y’all…

Some years ago I sold a race bike I’d converted for road use. 850cc Triton. In race tune it was very fast, quite well sorted IMHO.

When I advertised it, I did so before the engine was assembled, this way the buyer could choose the cams, carbs, compression ratio.

The buyer wanted it for summer evening club runs. An ‘out and out’ racer ain’t very suited to that! I tried to persuade him to opt for milder cams, reduced CR, and smaller ’normal’ carbs as the smoothbores used for racing were finicky, and had no tickover.

Basically the buyer thought I was trying to con him, and wanted it ‘as raced’. So, thats what he got, 11.1CR, full race cams, ‘no tickover’ smoothbores carbs, etc. The bike was a pig to start, fussy at low speeds, had no tickover… and went like the clappers!

After he collected it there followed a few weeks of communication, he couldn’t start it… why won’t it tickover… it’s not very nice on the club runs… can I have my money back… etc.

The bottom line was simply that the guy had many years of experience with road bikes, but no experience running race bikes…
 
  • Like
Reactions: baz
"The buyer wanted it for summer evening club runs. An ‘out and out’ racer ain’t very suited to that! I tried to persuade him to opt for milder cams, reduced CR, and smaller ’normal’ carbs as the smoothbores used for racing were finicky, and had no tickover."

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! I had similar experiences in the (car) engine building profession. Someone would come in with their list of what they wanted in the engine/drivetrain and explain they were going to drive it "normally" but wanted to "impress the guys" on the weekends. Inevitably their "design" (we would explain) produced essentially a race engine that would be miserable to drive on the street and, if not driven extremely aggressively, would lose more 'street races' than it would win.

Usually we convinced the client to go with a milder build, occasionally not. When we didn't we sometimes got an unhappy customer telling us how we built an "undriveable" car and demanding we fix "this POS" that we sold him. We discussed refusing to make 'extreme' builds for street cars but eventually ended up writing up a statement regarding the usability of such cars on the street and having that signed with the order for the work.

Frankly, that is exactly how I feel about the bike in question. It is certainly an eye-catcher but to me it is either a display piece or a racer. It is certainly NOT a bike you can use for 'normal' riding. I am not saying it isn't worth having as long as the expectation for what it can deliver is realistic.

In any case...it SHOULD be dragged kicking and screaming into actually running! :rolleyes:
 
SteveA said:
That all refers to the AB11 Inductive pick up amplifier. It is irrelevant to the Hall Effect item the OP has. And as posted before Mistral were the go to people for inductive Rita ignitions for many years

I had one of those inductive ignitions, it came from Thruxton in the '70s. It had the cut away timing cover and big pick up you see on the works JPNs. They jumpered out the advance circuit and ran fully advanced.

Typically, the AB 5 and AB11 blew output transitors....no spark. With the help of a TV enthusiast colleague we found a transistor that would work and repaired them!
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks for the correction Steve. I have AB5 & AB11 systems on 2 bikes, so I _thought_ this may help. My apologies for the muddy water :)
 
oldmikew said:
If the OP intends to race as he says then he would be an idiot not to go back toNorman White for whatever preperation the machine needs.. Given what he paid he will still be quids in..
Click to expand...
I hear you and after a carb clean out, that's what I will be doing. As to race versus road bikes, I agree with all the comments and have raced two strokes with 200rpm power bands that were impossible to use on the road!
 
Sorry to be a bore but there are 8 pages of suggestions here going from the basics and then entering into flux generator territory, but you haven't even cleaned the carbs yet! I respectfully suggest that you get off the internet and do this simple cleaning task and then get back to this site if the problem persists, or hopefully with the good news that the beast is running.
 
dave M said:
Sorry to be a bore but there are 8 pages of suggestions here going from the basics and then entering into flux generator territory, but you haven't even cleaned the carbs yet! I respectfully suggest that you get off the internet and do this simple cleaning task and then get back to this site if the problem persists, or hopefully with the good news that the beast is running.
Click to expand...
Always try the flux generator first!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top