Norman White PR starting problems

PM999S said:
It appears to have a copper head gasket with no obvious signs of blowing but, that said, if the Pazon ignition I have on order doesn't work it might be worth popping the head off just to check.
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Like other here I have never seen a copper head gasket blow between cylinders. I just threw that out as it can be an answer to why it won't light off when everything else seems fine.
 
I still don't see any comment from the OP as to whether he has talked to Norman White yet. We can all type away like the proverbial infinite number of monkeys trying to recreate the complete works of Shakespeare (with all due apologies to the several contributors who really know their stuff), but a word or three with the Oracle himself would probably help rather more.
With all the uncertainties of life, sooner is better than never.
 
SteveBorland said:
I still don't see any comment from the OP as to whether he has talked to Norman White yet. We can all type away like the proverbial infinite number of monkeys trying to recreate the complete works of Shakespeare (with all due apologies to the several contributors who really know their stuff), but a word or three with the Oracle himself would probably help rather more.
With all the uncertainties of life, sooner is better than never.
Click to expand...
I have emailed Norman since cleaning the carbs so will follow up with a call probably to arrange getting it back to him.
 
SteveBorland said:
I still don't see any comment from the OP as to whether he has talked to Norman White yet. We can all type away like the proverbial infinite number of monkeys trying to recreate the complete works of Shakespeare (with all due apologies to the several contributors who really know their stuff), but a word or three with the Oracle himself would probably help rather more.
With all the uncertainties of life, sooner is better than never.
Click to expand...
My sincerest apologies to all those on this thread who, like me, are losing the will to live with this issue but I thought I'd better give a quick update. I tried bypassing the crank triggered ignition with a Pazon cam mounted one with no noticeable effect other than the right exhaust gets a bit hot after a bit on the roller starter while nothing on the left despite both sparking up when the trigger wires are crossed when static. I set the rotor using the knotched window and cutout edge of a rotor on the primary side as the picture shows. Exhaustive advancing and retarding tests on the stator plate produces less activity than the initial static setting produced. I spoke to Norman who is booked up until September so I intend to throw a cover over the thing and pretend it doesn't exist until then. However, thanks for all the kind advice from the forum.
 

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So, you
  • used fresh gas
  • changed the ignition
  • changed the plugs
  • cleaned the carbs
  • Talked to Norman
  • anything else?
Did you try swapping the plug leads at the coil? You may be getting spark on the L, but not enough spark?
 
gortnipper said:
So, you
  • used fresh gas
  • changed the ignition
  • changed the plugs
  • cleaned the carbs
  • Talked to Norman
  • anything else?
Did you try swapping the plug leads at the coil? You may be getting spark on the L, but not enough spark?
Click to expand...
Yes to all your check points and have swapped leads over on the single solid state coil with no effect, both plugs show equal quality sparks when the trigger wires are crossed. Naturally, if I can get the wife to sit on the bike again while on the starter-roller will have one last go at manually adjusting the stator plate as she is spinning the bike up. After that I'll leave it alone until Norman can see it.
 
PM999S said:
Yes to all your check points and have swapped leads over on the single solid state coil with no effect, both plugs show equal quality sparks when the trigger wires are crossed. Naturally, if I can get the wife to sit on the bike again while on the starter-roller will have one last go at manually adjusting the stator plate as she is spinning the bike up. After that I'll leave it alone until Norman can see it.
Click to expand...
For those who haven't fallen asleep with this one an UPDATE... Finally got the bike back to Norman (real privilege to meet this wonderful chap) and he tells me there's signs it has been run on ethanoled fuel, must be by the previous owner as I used 102 octane ethanol free, with blisters on the fibre tank and carb needles gummed up with brown residue (that's €200 wasted on a so called 'professional' clean in Germany). So he got the bike running on the right cylinder but still problems on the left. Ignition is spot on so he is going to investigate further. More to follow...
 
PM999S said:
For those who haven't fallen asleep with this one an UPDATE... Finally got the bike back to Norman (real privilege to meet this wonderful chap) and he tells me there's signs it has been run on ethanoled fuel, must be by the previous owner as I used 102 octane ethanol free, with blisters on the fibre tank and carb needles gummed up with brown residue (that's €200 wasted on a so called 'professional' clean in Germany). So he got the bike running on the right cylinder but still problems on the left. Ignition is spot on so he is going to investigate further. More to follow...
Click to expand...
Excellant, nothing beats having a REAL professional diagnose.
Good choice and looking forward to the follow up..
 
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PM999S said:
For those who haven't fallen asleep with this one an UPDATE... Finally got the bike back to Norman (real privilege to meet this wonderful chap) and he tells me there's signs it has been run on ethanoled fuel, must be by the previous owner as I used 102 octane ethanol free, with blisters on the fibre tank and carb needles gummed up with brown residue (that's €200 wasted on a so called 'professional' clean in Germany). So he got the bike running on the right cylinder but still problems on the left. Ignition is spot on so he is going to investigate further. More to follow...
Click to expand...
When my fastback tank started to melt it was gumming up the carburettors
And was stopping the inlet valves from closing fully
I didn't realize what was going on but the performance was slowly dropping off ,it was only then that I discovered the mess
 
Good to hear that this is progressing. Looks like you're now a fully paid-up member of the melting fibreglass tank club.
My first symptoms were plugged idle jets every time I came to start the bike, and after searching the forum I quickly ditched the tank. Fortunately, it was only a carb strip required.
And a new metal tank.

If Norman can't supply a tank, Tab Classics did a very accurate PR repro for me in alloy. I think they turned it around in 6 weeks, and the price wasn't bad either.
 
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If it has spark, fuel and compression, it should make a noise when you prod it. Sometimes the carbon on the spark plugs can conduct. So fit new ones.
 
PM999S said:
Yes to all your check points and have swapped leads over on the single solid state coil with no effect, both plugs show equal quality sparks when the trigger wires are crossed. Naturally, if I can get the wife to sit on the bike again while on the starter-roller will have one last go at manually adjusting the stator plate as she is spinning the bike up. After that I'll leave it alone until Norman can see it.
Click to expand...
For those who haven't fallen asleep with this one an UPDATE... Finally got the bike back to Norman (real privilege to meet this wonderful chap) and he tells me there's signs it has been run ethanoled fuel, must be by the previous owner as I used 102 octane ethanol free, with blisters on the fibre tank and carb needles gummed up with brown residue (that's €200 wasted on a so called 'professional' clean in Germany). So he got the bike running on the right cylinder but still problems on the left. Ignition is spot on so he is going to investigate further. More to follow...
acotrel said:
If it has spark, fuel and compression, it should make a noise when you prod it. Sometimes the carbon on the spark plugs can conduct. So fit new ones.
Click to expand...
I've put four different sets of new spark plugs in the bike without success. Think Norman believes it's a failed electronic part but will await his investigation.
 


She lives and the great man was right again about the use of cheap ethanol fuel by the previous owner. It took three strip down and cleans to get all the gunk out of the left hand carb too.
Thanks for all the help from thw Forum now I just have to find a decent club on the Continent to race it with!
 
Congrats! I had my money on a coil/HT lead issue as there wasn't much left to be suspicious about. But why didn't the use of EasyStart/Ether etc. by pass the carb issue as others stated? Are you planning to replace the tank or have it lined?
 
Tornado said:
Congrats! I had my money on a coil/HT lead issue as there wasn't much left to be suspicious about. But why didn't the use of EasyStart/Ether etc. by pass the carb issue as others stated? Are you planning to replace the tank or have it lined?
Click to expand...
I have bought a Fastback ethanol safe tank from RGM to replace the huge Manx saddle one fitted but mainly to let me move two inches closer to the headstock and get a riding position closer to my Ducati 999. Norman built the engine to run on 50/50 Av gas and petrol so will stick to that with no E numbers in it!
 
it used to be : have you got fuel and a spark. Now it’s fuel and a spark, and clearing out old fuel first!!
 
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