Norman White PR starting problems

dave M said:
Sorry to be a bore but there are 8 pages of suggestions here going from the basics and then entering into flux generator territory, but you haven't even cleaned the carbs yet! I respectfully suggest that you get off the internet and do this simple cleaning task and then get back to this site if the problem persists, or hopefully with the good news that the beast is running.
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When everything is said and done, there's usually more said than done.
 
I had hoped my next post would have included a video of the bike up and running but, sadly, the saga goes on. Carbs professionally cleaned, with choke coupling bar installed to operate both chokes at once, and after numerous new plug and battery swap outs the bike still just fires intermittently on both cylinders. I spent over an hour with a local mechanic on the roller starter fiddling with the carbs until its electric motor started smoking!
So, with plenty of sparks from the plugs when out of the cylinders, it has to be the ignition either not set right or a failed component? Unless someone on the Continent knows how to reset this type of ignition, it looks like I'm having to engineer another work trip back to Blighty to take it back to Norman... (meanwhile I'll be rocking gently back in forth muttering to myself in a corner of the garage!)
 
PM999S said:
I had hoped my next post would have included a video of the bike up and running but, sadly, the saga goes on. Carbs professionally cleaned, with choke coupling bar installed to operate both chokes at once, and after numerous new plug and battery swap outs the bike still just fires intermittently on both cylinders. I spent over an hour with a local mechanic on the roller starter fiddling with the carbs until its electric motor started smoking!
So, with plenty of sparks from the plugs when out of the cylinders, it has to be the ignition either not set right or a failed component? Unless someone on the Continent knows how to reset this type of ignition, it looks like I'm having to engineer another work trip back to Blighty to take it back to Norman... (meanwhile I'll be rocking gently back in forth muttering to myself in a corner of the garage!)
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The last line.... made me laugh. Glad you can keep things in perspective. Your perseverance will pay off. I hope you get it going.
 
I have never heard of an engine being run in on starter rollers, I hope the rod bearings are OK.

Pazon Ignitions Limited

Overview of Digital & Analogue Ignition Systems. Classic bike & car electronic ignitions for road & racing.
www.pazon.com
 
PM999S said:
I had hoped my next post would have included a video of the bike up and running but, sadly, the saga goes on. Carbs professionally cleaned, with choke coupling bar installed to operate both chokes at once, and after numerous new plug and battery swap outs the bike still just fires intermittently on both cylinders. I spent over an hour with a local mechanic on the roller starter fiddling with the carbs until its electric motor started smoking!
So, with plenty of sparks from the plugs when out of the cylinders, it has to be the ignition either not set right or a failed component? Unless someone on the Continent knows how to reset this type of ignition, it looks like I'm having to engineer another work trip back to Blighty to take it back to Norman... (meanwhile I'll be rocking gently back in forth muttering to myself in a corner of the garage!)
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That must be very frustrating.

I’m out of ideas too.

Looks like a day at Norm‘s then…
 
Time Warp said:
I have never heard of an engine being run in on starter rollers, I hope the rod bearings are OK.

Pazon Ignitions Limited

Overview of Digital & Analogue Ignition Systems. Classic bike & car electronic ignitions for road & racing.
www.pazon.com
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As long as the engine was primed with oil then the shells will be fine as the engine hardly fired, what would do them in is no prime then the engine firing and being rev'd against the load of spinning the rollers before the oil could get there. Racing engines with no kick start or starter get their first starts that way plus a couple of laps to bed the rings.
 
kommando said:
As long as the engine was primed with oil then the shells will be fine as the engine hardly fired, what would do them in is no prime then the engine firing and being rev'd against the load of spinning the rollers before the oil could get there. Racing engines with no kick start or starter get their first starts that way plus a couple of laps to bed the rings.
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Over three months later trying to start it.
The poor old camshaft and followers grinding away also.

A bike that ran fine at dispatch ?
I hope the rollers are not trying to start it backwards.
 
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Is the bike with you in SW Germany? I know a few good Norton people a lot closer to you than Norman. Will send you a few names.
 
Trouble is the bike has a unique Norman White crank triggered ign system. And that’s what the OP wants verifying. So it’s not just Norton knowledge that’s required, it’s knowledge of this system, ideally at least..
 
Fast Eddie said:
Trouble is the bike has a unique Norman White crank triggered ign system. And that’s what the OP wants verifying. So it’s not just Norton knowledge that’s required, it’s knowledge of this system, ideally at least..
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100% correct Nigel.

However, at around £120 (+£40 for coils if needed)I would have thrown a bog standard Pazon at it by now, subsequently verifying it is or isn't an ignition problem.

If that worked, I would be making the trip to see Norman with a clear brief to fix the ignition system issue.

(if it did work I would keep that set up in the spares box too, nothing like being at a race circuit when a unique system fails....I may not be running a unique system, but I have an ignition and coils in the spares box anyway!)

But, each to his own and available time.
 
SteveA said:
100% correct Nigel.

However, at around £120 (+£40 for coils if needed)I would have thrown a bog standard Pazon at it by now, subsequently verifying it is or isn't an ignition problem.

If that worked, I would be making the trip to see Norman with a clear brief to fix the ignition system issue.

(if it did work I would keep that set up in the spares box too, nothing like being at a race circuit when a unique system fails....I may not be running a unique system, but I have an ignition and coils in the spares box anyway!)

But, each to his own and available time.
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Yeah good point Steve.

Also, there’d be the very easy option of just keeping the Pazon (or etc) fitted and just enjoy the bike.
 
I just read back a few pages about the custom ignition.

Norman once told me he has bikes shipped to him for service from the continent.
You could have it shipped to him via a reputable carrier.

I think Norman would shudder at the idea of installing a Pazon on his bike so I would not mention that to him!
 
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elefantrider said:
I think Norman would shudder at the idea of installing a Pazon on his bike so I would not mention that to him!
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I'm not sure why, he has installed quite a few Boyers over the years, Pazon isn't much different in running performance terms.

When he made a belt drive for me it accommodated a crank trigger Boyer from Steve Maney.
 
Why would you use (or even custom make one and yes JC made one iirc) a crankshaft mounted ignition on a Norton twin. ? (Unless it was a dead loss system with no charging rotor etc so it could be mounted with some ease and not out on the end of the crankshaft.

I had tried to convince myself (The rotor and stator on my 850 are moved inboard some 12 mm +) I needed to machine one but there seemed no good reason to do so with all the proven half speed camshaft driven ignitions.

A case of Rule Britannia perhaps.
 
Depends what you mean by ‘proven’ TW?

Sure the stock set up is ‘proven’ to work. But Steve Maney and Norman both take some beating when it comes to being proven on the track, and both swear by crank mounted ignitions.

The OPs bike is a race bike built by Norman,

But on a road bike of stock tune I’d definitely agree there’s nothing to gain.
 
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