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City Garage said:
Royal Enfield selling 3500 bikes or fewer a year isn't "successful" in the USA. TVS can't pull a BMW (auto side of the business). You can't claim to sell premium, then bring out the series 1 and 2 crap they tried to pawn off on people as a "luxury or premium" brand. Doing so just delutes your name, as they found out. That's why you have Toyota-Lexus Nissan-Iffinity, etc, etc. You need to pick one. You're either premium or you're not. The market just doesn't allow for it. If it did, you would see a cheap Ducati or MV

I do see your point, though, but being involved in the USA market, I have a different perspective.
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Agreed it will certainly be a challenge to incorporate lower capacity less expensive bikes into the range of a premium brand, especially as they will come out of India, but I believe that’s what they intend to do.

I don’t see their smaller capacity bike(s) being cheap in a Royal Enfield sense though. I think they’re likely to be slightly further up the market in an attempt to delineate them from the current 400-450 crop.

As BH stated earlier, think Triumph but an increment above in terms of quality (and most likely cost). You might remember a few years ago ‘Gladrags’ stating that ‘Premium does not have to mean expensive’. A clue maybe.

Not directly comparing Norton to any mainstream manufacturer but as we’re talking about BMW, they are classed as a premium brand but have 350/450 model offerings; the 450 engine going into the first (more affordable) Norton offering.

I know very little about the US market, but what I’m reading shows an increase in the market for smaller bikes, mainly for economic reasons; although no doubt Norton will want to export the whole range. RE sold about 13000 bikes in the US in 24 apparently, double that sold in 23. They’ve jut pre-positioned 9000 to try and beat tafiffs. Not massive numbers but showing a trend?

Norton (TVS) obviously have a plan. Whether it works in such a competitive environment is anybody’s guess. We can only watch, and hope they can get enough clear air to give it a red hot go.

 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Agreed it will certainly be a challenge to incorporate lower capacity less expensive bikes into the range of a premium brand, especially as they will come out of India, but I believe that’s what they intend to do.

I don’t see their smaller capacity bike(s) being cheap in a Royal Enfield sense though. I think they’re likely to be slightly further up the market in an attempt to delineate them from the current 400-450 crop.

As BH stated earlier, think Triumph but an increment above in terms of quality (and most likely cost). You might remember a few years ago ‘Gladrags’ stating that ‘Premium does not have to mean expensive’. A clue maybe.

Not directly comparing Norton to any mainstream manufacturer but as we’re talking about BMW, they are classed as a premium brand but have 350/450 model offerings; the 450 engine going into the first (more affordable) Norton offering.

I know very little about the US market, but what I’m reading shows an increase in the market for smaller bikes, mainly for economic reasons; although no doubt Norton will want to export the whole range. RE sold about 13000 bikes in the US in 24 apparently, double that sold in 23. They’ve jut pre-positioned 9000 to try and beat tafiffs. Not massive numbers but showing a trend?

Norton (TVS) obviously have a plan. Whether it works in such a competitive environment is anybody’s guess. We can only watch, and hope they can get enough clear air to give it a red hot go.

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Where are you getting your figures from?
No where on the internet does it show specific numbers. And are you saying 13000 bikes sold in 2024 and double that in 2023?
Or are you meaning 6500 sold in 2023?

Yammie Noob is just that, a Noob.


I know very little about the US market, but what I’m reading shows an increase in the market for smaller bikes, mainly for economic reasons; although no doubt Norton will want to export the whole range. RE sold about 13000 bikes in the US in 24 apparently, double that sold in 23. They’ve jut pre-positioned 9000 to try and beat tafiffs. Not massive numbers but showing a trend?
 
The trend in smaller bikes is pretty widely referenced.

No way of verifying this data. No idea whether Bizjournal is an authoritative source.

More news.


 
Stephen_Spencer said:
The trend in smaller bikes is pretty widely referenced.

No way of verifying this data. No idea whether Bizjournal is an authoritative source.

View attachment 121952

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Those are not the correct numbers. But more interesting, they say they have 8% of the Middleweight market.

From their 2024 and 2025 annual reports https://eicher.in/investors-overview/financial_and_reports/annual-reports

2024 Page 219 has the numbers shown below
2025 Page 251 has the sales numbers shown below

In a challenging North American environment marked by cautious consumer sentiment, Royal Enfield held steady with an estimated 8% share in the middleweight segment, supported by a strategic focus on new launches and network expansion. The brand also progressed with its CKD facility

2023-2024 only sold 6566 in the USA and 536 to Royal Enfield Canada Limited. Those 536 are not sold bikes; those were just sold to the distributor.

RENA was incorporated in March 2015 as a 100% subsidiary of Eicher Motors Limited to manage the distribution and sales of Royal Enfield products and services including motorcycles, spares and gear in North America. It sold 7,102 motorcycles (including 536 motorcycles sold to Royal Enfield Canada Limited, 100% subsidiary of RENA) during FY 2023-24 and achieved revenue of Rs.


2024-25 only sold 5660 in USA and 662 to Royal Enfield Canada Limited Those 662 are not sold bikes those were just sold to the distributor.

Royal Enfield North America Limited (RENA) (Wholly-owned Subsidiary) RENA was incorporated in March 2015 as a 100% subsidiary of Eicher Motors Limited to manage the distribution and sales of Royal Enfield products and services including motorcycles, spares and gear in North America. It sold 6,322 motorcycles (including 662 motorcycles sold to Royal Enfield Canada Limited, 100% subsidiary of RENA) during FY 2024-25 and achieved revenue of ` 269.77 Crores (including revenue of ` 23.71 Crores from sales to Royal Enfield Canada Limited). As of March 31, 2025, RENA had contracted with 145 multi-brand outlets in the USA. The company participated in 32 Dealer Demo Events and continued to support American Flat Track, Daytona, Vintage Motorcycle, Barber and Build Train Race (BTR) Programmes, with participation in 54 collective events in the FY 2024-25.


And the USA subsidiary is in debt as well
Unsecured working capital loan of subsidiary company viz., Royal Enfield North America Ltd as at March 31, 2025 of ` 79.59 crores (March 31, 2024 : ` 103.30 crores), average repayment period being 3 months, carrying interest @ 6.17% to 7.13% p.a., and Royal Enfield Thailand Ltd. as at March 31, 2025 of ` 2.52 crores (March 31, 2024: Nil), average repayable on demand, carrying policy interest rate @ 2% to 2.5% plus 0.6%. These loans are against corporate guarantees given by the Holding Company, Eicher Motors Limited.


The other highlight is they are going to start putting together bikes in the USA at what they call a CKD Facility. So parts will be shipped to the facility then assembled here. Thats great and will lower cost as they are not shipping completed bikes, which cost more
 
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City Garage said:
Those are not the correct numbers. But more interesting, they say they have 8% of the Middleweight market.

From their 2024 and 2025 annual reports https://eicher.in/investors-overview/financial_and_reports/annual-reports

2024 Page 219 has the numbers shown below
2025 Page 251 has the sales numbers shown below

In a challenging North American environment marked by cautious consumer sentiment, Royal Enfield held steady with an estimated 8% share in the middleweight segment, supported by a strategic focus on new launches and network expansion. The brand also progressed with its CKD facility

2023-2024 only sold 6566 in the USA and 536 to Royal Enfield Canada Limited. Those 536 are not sold bikes; those were just sold to the distributor.

RENA was incorporated in March 2015 as a 100% subsidiary of Eicher Motors Limited to manage the distribution and sales of Royal Enfield products and services including motorcycles, spares and gear in North America. It sold 7,102 motorcycles (including 536 motorcycles sold to Royal Enfield Canada Limited, 100% subsidiary of RENA) during FY 2023-24 and achieved revenue of Rs.


2024-25 only sold 5660 in USA and 662 to Royal Enfield Canada Limited Those 662 are not sold bikes those were just sold to the distributor.

Royal Enfield North America Limited (RENA) (Wholly-owned Subsidiary) RENA was incorporated in March 2015 as a 100% subsidiary of Eicher Motors Limited to manage the distribution and sales of Royal Enfield products and services including motorcycles, spares and gear in North America. It sold 6,322 motorcycles (including 662 motorcycles sold to Royal Enfield Canada Limited, 100% subsidiary of RENA) during FY 2024-25 and achieved revenue of ` 269.77 Crores (including revenue of ` 23.71 Crores from sales to Royal Enfield Canada Limited). As of March 31, 2025, RENA had contracted with 145 multi-brand outlets in the USA. The company participated in 32 Dealer Demo Events and continued to support American Flat Track, Daytona, Vintage Motorcycle, Barber and Build Train Race (BTR) Programmes, with participation in 54 collective events in the FY 2024-25.


And the USA subsidiary is in debt as well
Unsecured working capital loan of subsidiary company viz., Royal Enfield North America Ltd as at March 31, 2025 of ` 79.59 crores (March 31, 2024 : ` 103.30 crores), average repayment period being 3 months, carrying interest @ 6.17% to 7.13% p.a., and Royal Enfield Thailand Ltd. as at March 31, 2025 of ` 2.52 crores (March 31, 2024: Nil), average repayable on demand, carrying policy interest rate @ 2% to 2.5% plus 0.6%. These loans are against corporate guarantees given by the Holding Company, Eicher Motors Limited.


The other highlight is they are going to start putting together bikes in the USA at what they call a CKD Facility. So parts will be shipped to the facility then assembled here. Thats great and will lower cost as they are not shipping completed bikes, which cost more
Click to expand...
Interesting info CG although I’m not sure what conclusions we can draw? What that might tell us about the liklihood of Norton selling motorcycles into the US?

I guess RE achievements in recent years though shows that a motorcycle manufacturer can be successful without having a huge presence in the US, at least initially. Norton are not aiming for the same budget price point as RE though, so I suppose we’re not really comparing apples.

My guess is that they will be hoping to get a foothold in the US eventually (not unlike RE has) and build from there if possible - statement of the obvious really.

That will likely be after expanding sales from the UK into key European markets and India would be my guess. They need to start off strongly though so Nortons showing at EICMA will be pretty important.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Interesting info CG although I’m not sure what conclusions we can draw? What that might tell us about the liklihood of Norton selling motorcycles into the US?

I guess RE achievements in recent years though shows that a motorcycle manufacturer can be successful without having a huge presence in the US, at least initially. Norton are not aiming for the same budget price point as RE though, so I suppose we’re not really comparing apples.

My guess is that they will be hoping to get a foothold in the US eventually (not unlike RE has) and build from there if possible - statement of the obvious really.

That will likely be after expanding sales from the UK into key European markets and India would be my guess. They need to start off strongly though so Nortons showing at EICMA will be pretty important.
Click to expand...
RE had a big presence at Barber Vintage festival here in Birmingham this weekend. Triumph and Indian too. I had a test ride on an Indian Challenger and a Triumph Dpeed Twin. Both very nice machines. !
 
Sure — it's hard to draw definitive conclusions, but one thing is clear: Norton doesn't have the luxury of a slow burn. They’re aiming for a premium segment with premium pricing, which means expectations will be sky-high from day one. Unlike Royal Enfield, Norton can’t rely on affordability or mass-market appeal to buy time — they have to prove their value immediately.

A US entry may be on the roadmap, but without serious traction in the UK and Europe first, it won’t matter. And India? That’s a volume-driven market — Norton’s brand positioning and pricing may limit their potential there unless they have a very specific strategy.

Which is why EICMA isn’t just important — it’s critical. If they underwhelm or appear vague in their direction, it'll raise serious questions about whether they can genuinely compete, or if this is just another relaunch with nice branding but no real execution. Norton needs to make a statement — not just with styling, but with engineering, performance, and a clear market plan. Otherwise, the window of opportunity closes fast.
 
Agreed -100%. It is vital that they show quality saleable products @ EICMA, but I don’t think we should underestimate just how much TVS has invested and continues to invest in Norton - and satalite companies. This ain't no cobbled together concern run out of a carpeted castle.

They announced a ten year plan for a reason - in it for the long haul as we’ve discussed. Six new models (initially), over the next two years. My guess they’ll show one or two at EICMA. They won’t be expecting to move into the black for a number of years I suspect, but a strong start is certainly vital.

They’re a serious manufacturing concern and have hired serious people to develop the business - you’d have to believe that by now they have a clear market plan - vague seems unlikely. A clear market plan is one thing, whether the product actually meets a shifting market is the key I guess.

In the end it will come down to sales, so their plan (and product) needs to work in a super competitive market that is struggling in many areas. It’s gonna take them further time to develop the bikes and their intended market - we’re not gonna know the results of that immediately.
 
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US Import figures would give accurate numbers of what was is imported each year, though don't take the records for Norton 2011 - 2019 as gospel. Strangely Europe does not know Norton as a brand, most Nortons sold there were to US servicemen likewise many of the other places around the globe that we sell into including the likes of Panama and Japan where they served.
Youngsters did not know the likes of the Chinese models here in the UK or elsewhere or even if the Japanese brand bike they liked was made in China either - they still buy them.
I believe that Norton have given up with the premium expensive tag, that is clearly commercial suicide and so easy to see so many brands in the motorcycle world that have gone before that have tried that and failed. Well made bikes at a reasonable price will certainly sell irrespective of the name on the tank - history proves that.
Watching swap meet videos it would seem that the small capacity was filled by the off road and what we call green lane bikes, but there is plenty of mid capacity bikes to be seen as well.
As someone looking into the US market from outside I see that RE and BSA are in similar period as when they first arrived on UK shores, Triumph are further down the road, the rest is history. A decent bike with someone advertising will get them sold. Harley will be just that and still sell to their committed fans and as such not have much to compete with in their sector.
To assume that Norton is a name that not many in the US market no longer know of and the bikes would not sell is a poor assumption.
 
Madnorton said:
US Import figures would give accurate numbers of what was is imported each year, though don't take the records for Norton 2011 - 2019 as gospel. Strangely Europe does not know Norton as a brand, most Nortons sold there were to US servicemen likewise many of the other places around the globe that we sell into including the likes of Panama and Japan where they served.
Youngsters did not know the likes of the Chinese models here in the UK or elsewhere or even if the Japanese brand bike they liked was made in China either - they still buy them.
I believe that Norton have given up with the premium expensive tag, that is clearly commercial suicide and so easy to see so many brands in the motorcycle world that have gone before that have tried that and failed. Well made bikes at a reasonable price will certainly sell irrespective of the name on the tank - history proves that.
Watching swap meet videos it would seem that the small capacity was filled by the off road and what we call green lane bikes, but there is plenty of mid capacity bikes to be seen as well.
As someone looking into the US market from outside I see that RE and BSA are in similar period as when they first arrived on UK shores, Triumph are further down the road, the rest is history. A decent bike with someone advertising will get them sold. Harley will be just that and still sell to their committed fans and as such not have much to compete with in their sector.
To assume that Norton is a name that not many in the US market no longer know of and the bikes would not sell is a poor assumption.
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I’m confused by your whole statement.

“”To assume that Norton is a name that not many in the US market no longer know of and the bikes would not sell is a poor assumption.””

We’re not assuming that many here in the US no longer know of Norton. We know for a fact.
Want proof? Just look at how many 961’s are here, or lack of.
 
TonyA said:
RE had a big presence at Barber Vintage festival here in Birmingham this weekend. Triumph and Indian too. I had a test ride on an Indian Challenger and a Triumph Dpeed Twin. Both very nice machines. !
Click to expand...
What about the Buell power cruiser??🤩
 
NorTriDuc said:
I’m confused by your whole statement.

“”To assume that Norton is a name that not many in the US market no longer know of and the bikes would not sell is a poor assumption.””

We’re not assuming that many here in the US no longer know of Norton. We know for a fact.
Want proof? Just look at how many 961’s are here, or lack of.
Click to expand...
961 was not wanted in the US, if it was then the Norton TM would have never been sold. The roots of the 961 clearly come come from Kenny Dreer's creation, if it was popular it would have sold for him but it didn't and thus one of the reasons for the sell off of the TM.
I suspect that hardly anyone in the USA really remembers BSA, just like hardly anyone in the USA remembers Norton, but the pre-orders for the Bantam in the US is apparently massive despite the tariffs, No one in the UK really knows much about Chinese motorcycle brands but they buy them whether the brand is known or not, potential buyers want a reliable good looking bike for a good price irrespective of the name on the tank. If you want proof of that then look at Harley Davidson, here in the UK the dealers are nigh on all gone - HD a brand that many more British know of over Norton but yet they do not buy the bikes.
So, yes you are right in saying very few in the USA know the name of Norton, but that does not equate in anyway to suggest that Norton bikes will not sell, I believe RE have proved that and BSA are on track to do it as well.
To use the 'no one knows or remembers the brand' argument is very flawed, history proves that, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda - once upon time no one knew who these companies were.
 
Madnorton said:
961 was not wanted in the US, if it was then the Norton TM would have never been sold. The roots of the 961 clearly come come from Kenny Dreer's creation, if it was popular it would have sold for him but it didn't and thus one of the reasons for the sell off of the TM.
Click to expand...
Just one thing about this.
Dreer's Norton (the 961, and VR models) were popular among US buyers interested in custom BritBikes. Dreer's 961 never sold in the US because they were never marketed, ever, anywhere. Dreer's financiers pulled out their funding just as the 961 was to go into production. Dreer needed $10 million USD to buy production tooling, etc. His "friends" and financiers refused to fun the deal. Dreer tried to secure other funding but failed, and the whole venture collapsed on him in 2006. His 961 was celebrated by US motorcycle publications that tested the 961, and were happy that the US would soon have another domestic motorcycle manufacturer. Everyone was shocked when the company failed. You can search the web to find out the real reason why Dreer's "friends" stabbed him in the back. The real story is out there.

If the 961 had been produced in the US, it most certainly would have been popular and sold well. Dreer was also working on performance enhancements for the 961 as well.
 
Madnorton said:
961 was not wanted in the US, if it was then the Norton TM would have never been sold. The roots of the 961 clearly come come from Kenny Dreer's creation, if it was popular it would have sold for him but it didn't and thus one of the reasons for the sell off of the TM.
I suspect that hardly anyone in the USA really remembers BSA, just like hardly anyone in the USA remembers Norton, but the pre-orders for the Bantam in the US is apparently massive despite the tariffs, No one in the UK really knows much about Chinese motorcycle brands but they buy them whether the brand is known or not, potential buyers want a reliable good looking bike for a good price irrespective of the name on the tank. If you want proof of that then look at Harley Davidson, here in the UK the dealers are nigh on all gone - HD a brand that many more British know of over Norton but yet they do not buy the bikes.
So, yes you are right in saying very few in the USA know the name of Norton, but that does not equate in anyway to suggest that Norton bikes will not sell, I believe RE have proved that and BSA are on track to do it as well.
To use the 'no one knows or remembers the brand' argument is very flawed, history proves that, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda - once upon time no one knew who these companies were.
Click to expand...
Why keep making the same argument with people who are in the US market??

Brand familiarity doesn’t always drive sales, but I think the Norton story in the U.S. is a bit more nuanced.

Kenny Dreer’s version of the 961 wasn’t a failure of the bike so much as it was a victim of timing, capital, and scale. Boutique production with limited marketing reach isn’t the same thing as market rejection. Enthusiasts here were absolutely aware of it, and many still are, but the price point and supply chain limited it to a niche audience. Also, why didn't the 961 sell in 2010-XXXX Many of the same issues

You’re right that “no one knows the name Norton” isn’t quite accurate, though(even though its the truth). Anyone who’s into British bikes, café racers, or vintage performance still recognizes it for the most part, but it’s just not a household name anymore, the way Triumph managed to make itself again through consistent exposure and volume. That’s brand management, not memory loss. This is something TVS didn't manage in the last few years, when they had a great opportunity to do so, $500 sweaters don't count.

As for the RE and BSA comparison, those brands are succeeding now because they’re tapping heritage in a modern, affordable way. If Norton can ever pair its legacy and design ethos with the proper distribution and realistic pricing, it might sell, albeit in a crowded market

History doesn’t forget quality; it just waits for the right relaunch. As I stated before, every article produced about any new Norton will have the history of failure behind it (Not including Kenny)
 
BritTwit said:
Just one thing about this.
Dreer's Norton (the 961, and VR models) were popular among US buyers interested in custom BritBikes. Dreer's 961 never sold in the US because they were never marketed, ever, anywhere. Dreer's financiers pulled out their funding just as the 961 was to go into production. Dreer needed $10 million USD to buy production tooling, etc. His "friends" and financiers refused to fun the deal. Dreer tried to secure other funding but failed, and the whole venture collapsed on him in 2006. His 961 was celebrated by US motorcycle publications that tested the 961, and were happy that the US would soon have another domestic motorcycle manufacturer. Everyone was shocked when the company failed. You can search the web to find out the real reason why Dreer's "friends" stabbed him in the back. The real story is out there.

If the 961 had been produced in the US, it most certainly would have been popular and sold well. Dreer was also working on performance enhancements for the 961 as well.
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That’s a fair summary of Dreer’s struggle, but it’s worth clarifying: the 961(technically the 952) was very well-received in the U.S., it simply never reached actual series production under Dreer’s ownership. The bikes tested by Cycle World, Motorcyclist, and others weren’t vaporware; they were legitimate prototypes(STILL PROTOTYPES THOUGH) that generated real anticipation. If Dreer had secured that final round of capital, there’s little doubt Norton could have re-established a niche in the U.S. market the same crowd that embraced boutique builds like Confederate, Motus, and later CCM would’ve lined up for a modern, hand-built Brit twin with classic line.

The real question would be how long it would have lasted. Again, many of those buyers aged out and moved on.
 
City Garage said:
The real question would be how long it would have lasted. Again, many of those buyers aged out and moved on.
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I think it would have been a success and spawned new models. That's what Dreer had intended. All you have to do is look at the popularity of the Triumph twins and Royal Enfields. People buying them aren't all geezers. Recently I was at my Triumph dealer and meet a young woman who owned a Speed Twin. She is a millennial. Lots of Hipsters own Triumph and RE twins. They sell very well. A well built/reliable and supported 961 would due quite well, even today.
The key is well built/reliable and supported, and of course affordable.
 
BritTwit said:
I think it would have been a success and spawned new models. That's what Dreer had intended. All you have to do is look at the popularity of the Triumph twins and Royal Enfields. People buying them aren't all geezers. Recently I was at my Triumph dealer and meet a young woman who owned a Speed Twin. She is a millennial. Lots of Hipsters own Triumph and RE twins. They sell very well. A well built/reliable and supported 961 would due quite well, even today.
The key is well built/reliable and supported, and of course affordable.
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And available. When the new Nortons were available in the US, there were (I think) four dealers and they had nothing to show you other than a very high price tag.

The nearby Triumph dealer, at his grand opening (2015 if I remember right), you could ride away on any model of Triumph they made. He didn't even have the parts stock Triumph required him to open with all put in bins yet, but was was setup for service. He a thriving dealer today with more brands but started with Triumph only. He moved to a bigger space after a while and is now called Motorcycles of Dulles.
 

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