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City Garage said:
Since then, TVS has invested about £200mn?? Is that number right? At today's market, that's 2,687,400,000USD, and they "hope" to sell 20000 annually, which would equal 10k per bike sold.

And comparing to Royal Enfield in the US market isn't a good example since not many are sold here either. And the resale market for them is dismal
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I thought the math sounded "off"...
 
NorTriDuc said:
More to my point as to why it wouldn’t make any sense for Norton to offer a TVS made, small cc bike that’s priced for economic reasons.

Won’t make any sense for Norton to add better branded components to a TVS bike just to raise the cost.

The TVS made BMW small cc bikes are made for an entry level. There’s a reason why they don’t have higher quality, name brand components such as Brembo and Ohlins on them, it would only increase the cost.

Same as to why Toyota owns Lexus, Honda owns Acura, Vw owns Lamborghini etc.
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My guess is, they take a TVS small-cc bike, re-badge it with Norton with a few minor changes, and their additional overhead is virtually nil.
 
NorTriDuc said:
Stephen, I said I wouldn’t respond to you again but this is just too much. I’m not arguing or insulting you.
I know you wouldn’t be bothered by any of Nortons handling of the spares, but put yourself in our shoes and for once, having paid thousands of dollars for a vehicle that you can’t enjoy, knowing that the spares were / are available. Until it happens to you, it’s not a problem.

You seem to think that those of us whom had no success in getting spares just sit back and given up on the first few tries.
You seem to think we all just over reacted or bad mouthed Norton for no apparent reason.
I’m happy that you didn’t experience what many of us have, I really am.
But you need to realize we’re not all you and that what many of us say isn’t just a bad mouthing Norton for no reason. It’s the same experiences many of us have had and it’s not going to change, especially now that the 961 is being discontinued.
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NEVER MIND ANY OF THE ABOVE (just for a moment)

NOW, Imagine you are 83 years old, you've recently pulled your life savings out of Gold, Tesla, and Apple investments, and shoveled the lot into Garner Norton, et al.

Then, your smile goes away when you hear it's ALL GONE.

NEVER MIND THE MOTORCYCLE PART - Garner was a textbook skunk, and MANY people's lives were RUINED, while he got to walk away whistling and clicking his heels.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
We’re talking machines further down the price range here, but I would’nt be suprised if it had traction control/ABS, much like the 400 Speed Twin.

This is TVS building bikes alongside/and for another marque, like they do for BMW - so maybe less about what TVS are known for maybe?
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Triumph 400 Speed is decidedly a THUMPER, we have one.
 
Madnorton said:
The roots of the 961 clearly come come from Kenny Dreer's creation, if it was popular it would have sold for him but it didn't and thus one of the reasons for the sell off of the TM.
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Nope.

The reason Dreer didn't "make it" with Norton was that his group was already short $10,000,000 before the first actual bike ever rolled out the assembly building for DOT testing.
 
City Garage said:
Yes, one of my customers talked to them, and they were asked to send an email to info@juddracing.com. They did that and also the contact form on the website. Crickets.... I sent a friend in the UK to them, and they were noncommittal about getting any parts. Also, he uses them for KTM parts and says apparently, they have issues getting KTM parts, which they are a main dealer in, so I think there is a bigger issue
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I think I found the problem...
(highlighted in red, above)

"If you want to make a million in racing, start with 2 million"
 
kev said:
I’m happy to do that as there’s a Norton “dealer” not too far from me but I suspect the minute I say Donnington or provide a VIN (that they require to source parts) I’ll hit a blocker.

As you say, cash is king, so if I placed a big order, maybe I’d get somewhere. However, I strongly suspect someone in Solihull would ask questions as to why a single individual requires 18 indicators, 4 heads and 30 gaskets.
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Food for thought.
And Norton behavior is hard to fathom.

Norton will only take spares orders for NEW 961s - well they only want to deal with "re-engineered" Solihull 961s and not the "original" parts associated to Donington 961s. This is possible, but they could just release a list of "NEW" 961 parts that differ significantly from Donny 961 parts and are too incompatible to fit/operate reliably. Then the person placing the order can make their choice whether they want to take the chance that the parts may not be usable in their 961. Sale would be final to protect the factory from claims. Not a great option but maybe acceptable for most parts that will work in a Donny 961. We just need a list from Norton. Norton would make money on parts sales to Donny 961 owners. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Also, even if I'm obviously ordering more parts than I can really conceivably use myself, how would that be harmful to Norton? If I'm buying in quantity, then Norton is also buying in quantity - from their suppliers, and negotiating a better price per unit, ipso facto - Norton improves their margin on parts sales. How does that hurt Norton???? I've never heard of a parts manager being fired for improving profit.

Finally, Norton may just want to distance themselves from the Donny era 961. Perhaps there is a legal or image issue here that they just don't want to deal with. If that is the case then maybe if Norton simply revealed their suppliers for their parts, other importers might be interested in providing spares. LIke EMGO, or maybe NorVil. Who knows, stranger thinks have happened.
 
grandpaul said:
NEVER MIND ANY OF THE ABOVE (just for a moment)

NOW, Imagine you are 83 years old, you've recently pulled your life savings out of Gold, Tesla, and Apple investments, and shoveled the lot into Garner Norton, et al.

Then, your smile goes away when you hear it's ALL GONE.

NEVER MIND THE MOTORCYCLE PART - Garner was a textbook skunk, and MANY people's lives were RUINED, while he got to walk away whistling and clicking his heels.
Click to expand...
I’m not disagreeing with any of that, and we all know what scams he pulled. I do feel for all those who were scammed by Garner.
But we’re talking TVS Norton.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Sounds like a right pain Kev - it would be really useful to try and work out what’s going on though.

Is this Judd being inefficient because they’re busy, or are they reluctant to deal because Norton is slow in providing parts to them - we’ve seen this before. Or, is this Norton starting to control spares in some way?

If you get the chance and still want parts, go in and place an order directly. More difficult to ignore someone or obfuscate when that someone is stood infront of you, wallet in hand.

Maybe don’t initially state that it’s for a Donnie bike. If he asks, or requests a VIN, maybe remind him that all variants have parts compatability.

If they are insistent and then start throwing hurdles up then that might indicate that our ‘red-headed stepchild’ status may have been upgraded to ‘decesaed relative’!

At that stage I’d ask outright whether they are still suporting Donington owners and/or whether they’ve been given alternate direction by Norton. Unlikely, but you may get a straight answer. Either way it will be enlightening.

We can just sit back and say ‘Norton is crap’ or have a go at clarifying spares provision (again). There’s a few thousand of us out there - difficult to ignore if persistant.
Click to expand...
You would think they would just want to sell parts no matter what, since parts and service are how selling dealers actually make their money. They shouldn't care if you wanted to make a table or lamp out of them.
 
kev said:
I’m happy to do that as there’s a Norton “dealer” not too far from me but I suspect the minute I say Donnington or provide a VIN (that they require to source parts) I’ll hit a blocker.
Click to expand...
Perhaps someone with a TVS bike that's out of warranty could purchase spare part(s) that a Donnington owner could use.
 
NPeteN said:
Well when you put it like that....
Ought to be a bit smarter with your investments after 83 years on the planet.
Click to expand...
yeah, you're right, no 80-year-olds have EVER been rooked by sharpies, especially if "encouraged" by their younger family members and sharpie "financial advisors"...
 
TVS have different part numbers, factory manuals, software and many parts are different. Given that TVS Norton have made the number of spares that they feel is needed / legally required for the number of 961s they manufactured.. all sold in the UK. I'm not surprised they and their UK dealers are not interested in selling spares to Donny era 961s or abroad.
 
NorTriDuc said:
Stephen, I said I wouldn’t respond to you again but this is just too much. I’m not arguing or insulting you.
I know you wouldn’t be bothered by any of Nortons handling of the spares, but put yourself in our shoes and for once, having paid thousands of dollars for a vehicle that you can’t enjoy, knowing that the spares were / are available. Until it happens to you, it’s not a problem.

You seem to think that those of us whom had no success in getting spares just sit back and given up on the first few tries.
You seem to think we all just over reacted or bad mouthed Norton for no apparent reason.
I’m happy that you didn’t experience what many of us have, I really am.
But you need to realize we’re not all you and that what many of us say isn’t just a bad mouthing Norton for no reason. It’s the same experiences many of us have had and it’s not going to change, especially now that the 961 is being discontinued.
Click to expand...

We’re riding our 961’s and (I suspect) enjoying them. If they fail, we fix them - with spares we get from wherever we can, some ingenuity and the help of this forum.

I’ve fixed my bike with spares from Solihull and elsewhere - as have many here. I’m concerned about continued difficulty accessing Norton spares and believe we should attempt to clarify - again.

That’s it.
 
City Garage said:
You would think they would just want to sell parts no matter what, since parts and service are how selling dealers actually make their money. They shouldn't care if you wanted to make a table or lamp out of them.
Click to expand...
Agreed - you’d think so. We’re guessing again about why this is not occurring CG.

You’ll remember I rang around multiple UK dealers some time ago to try and get to the bottom of it, with mixed results.

Most said that getting spares out of Norton, even for machines they’d sold was difficult. The main conclusion we reached I think, was that Norton were prioritising 961 production, the new customer and then us……. a (very) distant last.

My guess, Norton are still producing 961’s to order, but will have ramped up hugely to focus on new models. Legacy 961 bike spares are likely on nobody’s priority list - dealer or factory. Not really good enough, but likely the reality.
 
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Bevelheadmhr said:
TVS have different part numbers, factory manuals, software and many parts are different. Given that TVS Norton have made the number of spares that they feel is needed / legally required for the number of 961s they manufactured.. all sold in the UK. I'm not surprised they and their UK dealers are not interested in selling spares to Donny era 961s or abroad.
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Valid points BH and may be the case now but, we have received spares for legacy bikes in the past albeit slowly and painfully. We even had it in writing at one stage - agreement to provide spares but with no guarantee that they would fit.

We’ve since discovered (mainly through Stu) that virtually 100% of parts are common or compatible - with just a few (like the battery box) that may need modification.

As has been said, there’s a lot of money to be made in spare parts but also cost in their logistic provision. So I don’t believe Norton will ever be the fully reliable source for legacy 961’s parts they could (and probably should) be, but are still there to be tapped into I think.

If they have decided that they will no longer provide (even limited) support for legacy bikes - not the case I don’t think - then we should be made aware of that. Definitely warrants further enquiry.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
We’re riding our 961’s and (I suspect) enjoying them. If they fail, we fix them - with spares we get from wherever we can, some ingenuity and the help of this forum.

I’ve fixed my bike with spares from Solihull and elsewhere - as have many here. I’m concerned about continued difficulty accessing Norton spares and believe we should attempt to clarify - again.

That’s it.
Click to expand...
We’re? I haven’t ridden either of mine in years because spares “Are not available”. You know I’ve tried and beat this horse to death.

Myself like others haven’t had luck such as you. You know this, you see this.
Instead you take it as “negativity “

I have better luck finding spares for my 1953 Triumph T100C
 

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