More Norton history?

Molnar Precision Limited, which Richard operates with son Andy, has developed the Manx further than its mid-century designers could have ever properly conceived. The team’s four-valve Manx produces 70 hp at 9,500 rpm at the rear wheel and weighs a scant 275 pounds wet, proving the past is most respected when it isn’t left to gather dust.

I'm not arguing what they should be called, putting the builders name and the Type or Brand or Frame builder or whatever a racer wants to call it is ok with me.
One bike I worked on is called "The Dick Mann Rocket 3", that Yvon Duhamel #17 rode to great success. YD could make that thing fly!
It’s actually Andy Molnar with son Richard. But yes, they will be around 70bhp at the crank in order to put out 60 at the wheel. Their own bike may be more than customer bikes too.

As you say, the factory stopped producing in ‘62 so there has been 62 years of continual development since the factory stopped ! Amazing really.
 
'Some things are worth doing, simply because they are good things to do' ! - Did Joe Craig leave any development notes ?
 
It’s actually Andy Molnar with son Richard. But yes, they will be around 70bhp at the crank in order to put out 60 at the wheel. Their own bike may be more than customer bikes too.

As you say, the factory stopped producing in ‘62 so there has been 62 years of continual development since the factory stopped ! Amazing really.
The info was from their Molnar's web site, "The team’s four-valve Manx produces 70 hp at 9,500 rpm at the REAR WHEEL" ,
Do some simple math if you can and estimate the approximate Molnar Engine rear wheel HP they stated, at the crank. I read it is anywhere from 10-20%, so I used 15%. difference.
I never wrote the Manx ended in 1962. But I sure hope this does!
 
Carl, I'm not jumping into this mix. We own nothing but Commando's. All 850's. We refer to them as "The White bike", "The Green bike", The NY bike", etc. When we refer to the heads... It's "The RH4 Carl did" or "The RH10 Carl did". :cool:
Well, someone is mixed up that's for sure.
I used to call my original racer the White Bike, too, But, because Jerry Wood rode it so well and Yvon won his last races on it and I even won my 3 championships on it, It was definitely the "Right Bike' to race for many racing legends to swing a leg over and feel what a CHR Commando can do. It was a dream come true.
 
I suggest there are two concepts which apply to road racing motorcycles, and both have their advantages. The 250cc Japanese two-strokes displaced the 500cc Manx Nortons in A grade races in the early 1960s. They were more about top-end power than torque. It probably takes a more skilled rider to get the best out of a Manx. With a two-stroke, and particularly the early ones - difficult to accelerate from very early in corners - but easier for beginners to do well, because when they are upright and pointed, they are usually faster. A 70 BHP Manx ridden like an early two-stroke would be very slow. The strength of the Manx is how early you can get on the gas again after braking into a corner. And Commandos should be similar. One thing I always do is avoid hitting other bikes. I do not fly through the middle of a bunch of riders in a corner. If I can get up behind them, I prefer to ride under them. The low line is usually empty. Accelerate really early, and come out of the corner faster - it takes a lot of power for them to make-up the difference down the next straight.
 
More modern two-strokes have more torque. And older 4 cylinder bikes are usually slower in corners. I do everything slowly. Some guys get a bit excited.
 
Quite right… 60mph ain’t gonna get you far is it?!

I guess my main point here is… what would people rather these bikes be called? Let’s just look at two examples:

A period Ray Petty built racer, called a Petty Manx. What would people have this called instead?

A modern classic race bike, all new, but clearly based on a Manx, built by Andy Molnar and called a Molnar Manx. What would people have this called instead?
A Molnar Manx is a 'replica' of a Manx Norton! (ish if you prefer, but they are meant to look like Manx Nortons!)

The Petty Manx's I know of are bikes built by Ray Petty and not 'replica' Manx Nortons! No attempt was made to make them look like Manx Nortons
 
The info was from their Molnar's web site, "The team’s four-valve Manx produces 70 hp at 9,500 rpm at the REAR WHEEL" ,
Do some simple math if you can and estimate the approximate Molnar Engine rear wheel HP they stated, at the crank. I read it is anywhere from 10-20%, so I used 15%. difference.
I never wrote the Manx ended in 1962. But I sure hope this does!
The Molnar 4 valve is an interesting dead end. Most classic race series rules make it ineligible!

I guess this will go on as long as you want! Merry Christmas.
 
A Molnar Manx is a 'replica' of a Manx Norton! (ish if you prefer, but they are meant to look like Manx Nortons!)

The Petty Manx's I know of are bikes built by Ray Petty and not 'replica' Manx Nortons! No attempt was made to make them look like Manx Nortons
in the UK, people who know race bikes would call them Petty Manxes. That has been the agreed term for decades, whatever some people think.
 
The Molnar 4 valve is an interesting dead end. Most classic race series rules make it ineligible!
They have been eligible at the OIM and in IHRO I believe.

I also understand that next season they’re eligible with CMRC and that BHR will almost certainly follow.
 
They have been eligible at the OIM and in IHRO I believe.

I also understand that next season they’re eligible with CMRC and that BHR will almost certainly follow.
So...basically, everyone will need one.....

Which was the argument CRMC used a few years ago when they refused eligibility!

Still, it's only money!
 
Last edited:
So...basically, everyone will need one.....

Which was the argument CRMC used a few years ago when they refused eligibility!

Still, it's only money!
I don’t know how they’re doing it Steve, separate class? Handicap system? Free for all? I dunno.

Anyway, in the main classes like up to 501cc, the top lads on the top bikes are always gonna win irrespective of valve count!
 
I don’t know how they’re doing it Steve, separate class? Handicap system? Free for all? I dunno.

Anyway, in the main classes like up to 501cc, the top lads on the top bikes are always gonna win irrespective of valve count!
The top riders also are just that, riders, not bike builders and owners. They will ride what they are given to ride.

Young Joe Woodward did very well on Molnar's 2 valve Manx this year (and several other bikes), all due respect to his riding, he is good and really only just starting out, but he probably doesn't even pump up the tyres or put fuel in.

BHR may not follow immediately, the one rider I know who is involved with BHR organisation, rides a 2 valve Manx!
 
The top riders also are just that, riders, not bike builders and owners. They will ride what they are given to ride.

Young Joe Woodward did very well on Molnar's 2 valve Manx this year (and several other bikes), all due respect to his riding, he is good and really only just starting out, but he probably doesn't even pump up the tyres or put fuel in.

BHR may not follow immediately, the one rider I know who is involved with BHR organisation, rides a 2 valve Manx!
Agreed.

You certainly have a different attitude when you’ve built the thing yourself… and will have to finance and rebuild it yourself after crashing !!
 
Agreed.

You certainly have a different attitude when you’ve built the thing yourself… and will have to finance and rebuild it yourself after crashing !!
When you build the thing yourself, you usually do not have the experience to really know what it is doing. Good riders have usually ridden the best bikes and know when a bike is not performing as well as it can, Mike Hailwood began racing on a world championship winning Mondial 250. The rider adjusts to the bike. I suggest Mike knew when a bike was inadequate, but I don't believe he was good at giving feedback. In my own situation, when I develop a bike, I do not ride it in the same way as a rider who has been conditioned by excellence. So it takes me longer to find out how to use the bike properly. Surtees rode the 500cc Honda after Hailwood and said it was horrible - but Surtees built bikes. There is a 7R AJS which he built which is apparently superb.
 
When you build the thing yourself, you usually do not have the experience to really know what it is doing. Good riders have usually ridden the best bikes and know when a bike is not performing as well as it can, Mike Hailwood began racing on a world championship winning Mondial 250. The rider adjusts to the bike. I suggest Mike knew when a bike was inadequate, but I don't believe he was good at giving feedback. In my own situation, when I develop a bike, I do not ride it in the same way as a rider who has been conditioned by excellence. So it takes me longer to find out how to use the bike properly. Surtees rode the 500cc Honda after Hailwood and said it was horrible - but Surtees built bikes. There is a 7R AJS which he built which is apparently superb.
I agree Al.

When you’re a builder and rider, and you experience something happening, your brain immediately starts going into problem solving mode, analysing and solving. So by the time you get back to the pits you’ve already decided what’s wrong and what to do.

And maybe you’re right, maybe you’re not!

Then when you change something, yiu go back out with pre conditioned ideas about how it will be better, causing a placebo effect.

A rider who’s not a builder will be more likely to return to the pits and give unfiltered feedback to the techs. So a rider who’s good at this along with a tech who’s good at listening and interpreting is a powerful combo !

Years ago I was struggling to set the carbs on a bike, was going around in circles. So I got my then girlfriend to ride it around a set route and report back to me, I’d then change something and she’d go again. We got the carbs nailed pretty quickly as I was not jumping to (wrong) conclusions, I just listened to her. And she had no placebo effect of what I changed coz I didn’t tell her anything !
 
Reading thru this thread I noticed the factory Manx model being referred to as a " Norton Manx". That seems entirely correct however my British friends always refer to these bikes as " Manx Nortons". I've heard it that way so much that it sounds right and the other way sounds off!
I suppose it makes no difference, either way works.
I did stumble on a UK forum where someone was being chastised for putting the Norton first.
With just about every other make and model ( Triumph Bonneville, Harley Sportster, Kawi Ninja) the manufacturer name is placed first.
Not so with a Manx Norton, in the UK at least. Just another special Manx thing.

Glen
 
So I got my then girlfriend to ride it around a set route and report back to me, I’d then change something and she’d go again. We got the carbs nailed pretty quickly as I was not jumping to (wrong) conclusions, I just listened to her. And she had no placebo effect of what I changed coz I didn’t tell her anything !
She sounds like a keeper Nigel - so why is she an ex ? Was she faster than you ? 😉
 
Back
Top