Manx GP 2010

Hi Folks .... here is a post i put up on Triples Online already


The Manx MMCC have now included a new class in the senior classic event which includes 501-750cc 4 strokes , close date Dec 31 1972 ....

yes we are now senior and not post classic ...

the close off for date for the bikes is Dec 31 1972 and is so in the sweet spot for Commandoe's . triples etc ... and 750 is perfect to keep all those Jappers at bay ..

in the interest of supporting the Manx GP in instigating this class ( i did send a few emails to them explaining that this would be a very popular class ... don't know if it was my emails or just their decision ) and keeping this class for the future events they have announced, it is up to us to support them in it .... this of course would allow commandos, Bonneville's, and brit triples all to be very competitive in this class ...

so any racers who own these machines or owners who wish to get a rider to ride their bike in the senior who you know and would be up for it on any qualifying bike in this class please encourage them to enter ....

to this end i am sending my newly acquired Rob North Trident (with a lot of work done beforehand ) over from Australia to compete .... I have also had a few conversations with a serious TT rider to ride it for me ...

spread the word on the forums and i am sure we can get a superb 71/72 grid lined up ... and how cool would that be ...

be like seeing Pickrell Vs Williams again ...

Regs will be issued in March but here is the site for details for those interested ...

http://www.manxgrandprix.org/racepro.html

if anyone has any questions either PM me or send and email to snibor@iinet.net.au

all the best steve

Hi Racers

are there any takers on Commando's for the Manx GP .... surely there is one ???

would be a sad day not to see a Commando lined up at the Manx GP in a pre 72 field

steve

I think people are going through their Rolodexes looking for someone crazy enough to ride their bike there but not crazy enough to crash it. :mrgreen:

I grew up on public roads racing in Ireland, where it was the only option at the time. Would I go back and race on them again?? No way! I'll happily stick to a full season of short circuit racing here.

I would be surprised if there were no Commandos on the grid. If any of you have not yet been to the Manx GP, it's well worth the trip. The TT course is still the ultimate test of bike and rider. It's a more low key event than the TT, and much more interesting for people like us, because of the two classic races and, since 2009, the Post Classic event as well. It's easier to spectate and to get around generally than the TT. There is always a large selection of interesting road bikes and enthusiasts. The classic events are open to professional racers, and you are likely to see some of the top road racers in the world in action on classic machinery.

Dave

I certainly really hope there are a few Commando's lined up

also Dave you are so right ... the Manx is a way better event IMHO ... much more laid back , hotels are affordable, crowds are not to bad etc etc ... and more especially interesting for our era ...

you can wander around the pit area , speak to the top riders see all the bikes at close quarters ...

I was over from Brisbane this year helping prepare a Laverda Jota for the post classic event and pit crewing for it .... a wonderful experience ... the pits haven't changed in 50 years ... still the old gravity fed fuelers ...

it should be especially fun this year with the 70s bikes in the Classic senior and the seriously quick pre 85 post classic races ... I know of at least 5 Rob North Triples that will be lined up apart from my one ... it will be interesting with all today's tyre technology , wider tyres , ignition systems and 40 years of development to see if anyone can get round any quicker than they did in the 70s on bicycle tyres and points ..

as to a few other comments about riding the island circuit ... I agree whole heartedly that it is the ultimate test ... and therefore it will not be me on board my one ... I am engaging a decent rider who knows his way around the island ... that will also do justice to the bike as well .. ..of course it also means i get to partake in a pint or 5 at the pub ... can't be doing that if you are riding , the riders get breathalysed now before the race and have to be 0 ... not like in Joeys day when reputedly he had an optic shelf in his van

steve

Steve — I will try to keep a Commando flavour to this post in case our moderator pulls us up! I look forward to following the progress of your triple at the Manx this year. Nearer the time, you should let us the know your rider's name and race number so we can look at practice and race results. It's great to see people like yourself coming all the way from Down Under to the Island.

Maybe Seeley 920 knows of some 750 Commandos that could line up on the grid. Not sure how quick a 750 Commando is against e.g. a 750 triple. Maybe Norman White might wheel out something special? He would surely be able to make a Commando competitive. And maybe one of the Stateside Norton tuners?

Seeley 920 — Happy New Year, John! Can you enlighten us on the above?

Dave

Hi Dave, Happy New Year!!

There are very few 750 commando's as quick as a 750 triple......my own and Steve Maney's .....Steve's is a bit quicker than mine, but I can't see him doing the Manx, and I'm certain that he wouldn't let anyone else out on his own bikes!! Sean Hennessy has a pretty quick 750, but he's going for 1007 this year. Gary Thwaites 750 is reasonably quick, but still being developed, and I'm not sure if they're going to persevere with it, as they have the big ones anyway. Norman White's one is fast, I'm not sure if Norman would want to do the Manx, but he'd certainly build one if someone was willing to stump up the cash!!

I would have thought of Mark Morgan in Ireland, but his is 1007 too, unless he was going to build a 750 motor??

Hi Seeley

as you probably know the island is not just all about speed for the 70s machines but more a race of attrition ... Peter williams was well in the hunt as we a number of Norton riders in 72 and later (but gear box failure mostly caused them to not make it all the way ... and Croxford was mostly pissed ) in 72 and rode 3 laps of the race in top gear using only lower gears when absolutely necessary so as not to blow the box ... from distant memory he was still clocking over 100MPH laps even like that .... mind he was a superb rider ... probably the best at the time ... hell he got the Arter Matchless 500 single into 2nd in the senior in 73/74 i think it was against the jap 2 strokes ..

i would have thought that a 750 commando would be well in there today in a 72 field with all the newer technologies .... don't forget this is 750 ... none of those bastardised 990 triples or bloody 1300 yoshimura H4s ... this is real stuff ... F750

having ridden a Commando ... not in much anger i have to say ... it feels the type of bike that would relish that mountain ...

I know of a few Bonnies that are going in a i guess though if it's a F750 event they will probably get away with big bore kits ...

my thoughts are ... and just my thoughts .... that even with better more reliable motors , way better suspension , and even better tyres even with a top rider today they will not go quicker than williams , croxford, Pickrell and Jefferies did in the 70s on bicycle tyres ...

i will be suprised to see anyone go much over the 100MPH ... except my Triple of course and i doubt they will make the 108MPH alex george did ..

last thing ... it's not all about winning it's just the chance to see commando's vs triples vs bonnie's vs laverda's, Vs BMW going over the mountain again ... what a blast that would be from the side of the track as a spectator

steve

Hi Steve,

You are right, but as most Commando's here are built for short circuits, and everything is lighter etc, then the Island would break them. Anyone wanting to use their short circuit Seeley for example, would probably need different suspension (not just the set up, different internals) preferably a TTI gearbox, bigger tanks (my petrol tank is less than 6 litres.....have you tried to get a tank made recently....2 year wait if you're lucky!!) all brackets would need to be stronger/heavier to withstand the punishment of the Island. Triples tend to be a lot more reliable over the season too.


Also don't forget that in 1973 Peter Williams commando was 12 mph quicker than the fastest triple!!!

Have you seen how quick the F750 triples are??? I race against them every week.....some have 90 RWBHP!! My 750 can keep up with most of them, even at Snetterton, but they also have some seriously talented riders! My brother races a Piper F750 triple, (CRMC F750 champion the last 2 years, and a 930 Rob North)....and he certainly won't be doing the Manx!

I would think that they should be a little quicker now, with a decent rider....after all how quick are Manxes and G50s around the Island now?? a lot quicker than they were in the 70's!

John

Hi John

yes a very fair response a

and i would still add and in the day in 72 i was big Triumph Fan (owning one as you do ) and not Norton at that time , but Peter Williams was just a superb rider ... I was in awe of him ... the smoothest on the island by miles in his day ... just poetry to watch him almost ride like he was metronome ...I am sure you have, but if not watch him riding the island he uses almost no brakes .... just smooth as ...

I rode at Snetterton in the 70s (hated that circuit ... boring as I think it was and air field at some time from memory ) on a Rocket 3 and in the later part of the 70s just got blown away by the jap 4s but at Lyden or Brands on the short circuit a different story ... R3 was good there but still an old push rod engine and to old in technology ...

yes on the F750 triples i know well ... 90 RWHP is more than I have personally seen but I would guess possible today ... and would need to be a very good one ... i have seen mostly around the 85-87 on serious triples on the Dyno on petrol on a really really good ones ... over here in Australia close to 100 RWHP is possible on a 750 because we can run on alcohol in classic events .... ... in the IOM on alcohol ... that would require a fuel stop at Ramsey and at Douglas on every lap with 3x 450 main jets

anyways in keeping with the flavour here ... I personally would love to see a Commando or 10 line up as I would love to see the 750 Laverda , and all the others from the era as well .... this is Nostalgia at it's best .... who cares who wins so long as we have fun and the fans really enjoy it ... and of course the hospitality over there is bar none .... best Guinness out side of Ireland as well

so how about 2011 ... that would give time to sort the bike for the island ... I am taking both my North and my Proddie racer over for that ... proddie bike is slippery sam spec but i am guessing with me on board i will be very very happy with 90 MPH lap if it's dry ... in the wet MMMMM ...


Steve

Hi Steve,

personally I have no interest in riding on public roads any more, but like you, I'd love to see a gaggle of Commandos out there. Actually, I've just remembered Ron Soar still races a Spondon one, and always does the Southern 100, pre TT classic etc, but he's been having some reliability problems lately. If he got it sorted, he might do the Manx on it.

Yes, Snetterton is a bit boring, but it's the one that the triples have their biggest advantage on because of the long straights, as you will remember. Anywhere else and a good rider on a good Commando will be right up there......well, in the top 6, unless it's Gary Thwaites....he's worth a few seconds a lap!!

Almost every triple here will be 85 hp, Richard Peckett builds them all to the same spec for reliability, but there are a few that are on 90, and some of the Swedish ones who come over are definitely 90!! I can just get past most of the mid 80's ones on the straights. I haven't seen a Laverda racing here for about 10 years though......always liked the SFCs......no doubt there would be a couple of Weslakes too.....but making them reliable enough for practice and the race might be difficult!! My mate has a couple of Proddie triples, including the one which Alex George used to race with the CRMC!!

john

i feel like you are trying to draw my hand in a game of poker

yes i know Richard is doing a lot of work on the track bikes over there and prepares many of them ... I also have some of his stuff ... and yes this is all track tested and reliable ... all what you need at The IOM ....

BUT

to get the edge you need another advantage .... we have been working on some new developments over here outside of the square but within the regs mostly around ignition mapping on the Tri-Spark, Valve timing and a serious change to the valve gear .... got to haven''t you ...

need to see what works and what doesn't .... some of this stuff we are doing would also work with the Commando as well ... and i will apply the commando in my garage ....... just in case the owner of the commando that lives at my place is watching this forum I may apply a few mods to his to see how the Commando benefits as well ...OK or not Tony ... but got to fix what sounds like a bloody lay shaft bearing as well before hand ...



steve

Hi Steve, actually, no I'm not a poker player!

I love to beat triples on my commando....I don't own the ones my brother rides, but a good friend of Richards does,.....having said that, when I was younger, all I ever wanted was a Rob North!! I've beenj offered many rides on them but have always turned them down........partly to avoid getting drawn into the "triple club" ......and also, if I did ride one, all my Nortons might be up for sale the nextr day!!

Some of the guys here are going to Pazon, with remapped curves. I use them on my commandos and wouildn't use anything else now after years of frustration with Boyer. Never tried the TriSpark, although I've heard good things about them!

The only thing about my motors is that on the 73x89 motor I'm using a cam that is no longer available, but I have had a couple of copies made.....good top end, and lots of torque. In the short stroke, I've got a PW3.....impressive too, although the motor has only been run once, but it was quick. I bit of finje tuning ton the dyno, and it should be even better for this season!!

I'm guessing the ones your Brother rides are Tim Wooleys ??

what your Brothers name if that's ok to broadcast on here ??


The Tri-Spark ignition is a revelation on a triple ... and the twins ... I have them fitted to all my bikes ....

and not much wrong with a Boyer so long as it's used in the right application ... picture attached of a good application




on my Briggs and Stratton ride on mower

steve

Hehe, I guess your lawn is overgrown

No, Cormac rides for Brendan Ryan.....we normally wave to Tim on the way by..........tell him that if you see him in Philip Island ....and ask him if his is one of the "new, short stroke big bore" 750 triples