Manx Norton

I thought I would start this thread because many people have never ridden a Manx Norton, or have seen what they are made of. Apart from being iconic, the Manx is a benchmark for handling and speed. By today's standards it is not fast, but riding a Manx is an experience every road racer should have. Then they should know what 'fit for purpose' means. It might be wothwhile to have current knowledge about the Manx and the available race classes in which it can still be used.

Today

acotrel said:

Today

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Customers are serious racers in their 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's and (the unspoken bit) don't have to ask what the cost of the motor is?

I'll never own a Manx or a Haas Mini 2, cuz I might ask.

'51 / '52 Longstroke, any chance anyone has a f/bed longstroke that is basically original? I'm looking for some info / pics for a rebuild.
Thanks.

I only know of one longstroke featherbed Manx. It is in Melbourne, Australia. Steve Oszko's son, Andrew might know where it is now. His father had it as a street bike, but it has since been restored back to original.

acotrel said:

I only know of one longstroke featherbed Manx. It is in Melbourne, Australia. Steve Oszko's son, Andrew might know where it is now. His father had it as a street bike, but it has since been restored back to original.

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Appreciate the response. If there's any way to check I'd appreciate. Plan to be in Melbourne for a week next month and then ride up the coast for a month.
A guy named Steve Grant had a '52 350 rebuilt by Ken McIntosh, am wanting to track him down for info.

ata bouta leven minuettes .

andyd said:

Appreciate the response. If there's any way to check I'd appreciate. Plan to be in Melbourne for a week next month and then ride up the coast for a month.
A guy named Steve Grant had a '52 350 rebuilt by Ken McIntosh, am wanting to track him down for info.

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If you ring Andrew Oszko at S.O. Motor Engineering in Ringwood, he might be able to put you in touch with Bob Lewins.

Matt Spencer said:

ata bouta leven minuettes .

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Bob McIntyre was killed on that circuit. You will notice that as he approaches the corners, he suddenly leans the bike on the triangular tyres. It is not the smoothest way to ride. These days race bikes are very different - more margin . I raced a bit in those days - I am better in the wet than many. My brain has been trained to cope with slipperyness. We had really shit tyres. A Manx is a great bike, but it depends on what you compare it with. A Honda VFR400 would make it look stupid.

" You will notice that as he approaches the corners, he suddenly leans the bike on the triangular tyres. It is not the smoothest way to ride "

But Its FASTER . Actually - He'd have the picks out APPROACHING the CORNER . He would then ' throw it over ' AT the corner . And not to late ! .

" A Manx is a great bike, but it depends on what you compare it with. A Honda VFR400 would make it look stupid. "

Got any lap times ? A Modern Manx may well still outcorner the rice burner . Built from unobtainium , it may well out accelerate it ? .
After All, a 500 single is a 500 single , which is why 650 singles are so popular these days . Why bnot put two of em init .



Ow abouta Black Lightning . 7R brake .The Honda'd start to fade at 150 , whereas if the rider wasnt blown off , 200 on methanolmight appen .

A MANX V-Twin'd aveto be about 120 orse . For Starters .

http://www.thevincent.com/vincent engine.html Cor .

The first complete Irving-Vincent, displacing 1299cc via a 92x97.7mm undersquare design with a sky-high 14:1 compression ratio to run on a methanol mix, debuted in 2003 at the Geelong Speed Trials with around 135 hp. It also stumped out an impressive 110 lb/ft of torque. And that was only the beginning. KHE was just getting warmed up.

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Subsequent developments punched out the motor to 1571cc with a 100x100mm square ratio. Now the Irving-Vincent was knocking out 165 hp (at a leisurely 6500rpm) and 130 lb/ft. The latest version, featuring a four-valve, fuel-injected 1600cc engine (still with traditional pushrods but now operating a double-armed rocker on each side) made a staggering 186 hp, with a slightly higher rev ceiling than the 2-valve. As remarkable as these numbers are, Ken and the gang find them disappointing - they claim the outputs are almost 10% below their targets!


That should do it , With 1 3/8 frame toobs and 1 5/8 fork legs . You could even put comensurate brakes onit . Or doit with Minx Knorton injuns two . Tghat'd tellum .

Or just get a hacksaw and a TB 48 for a 1600 parralel twin , wot'd fit beta .


Then e'd avta put THREE Vf 400 injuns init , to keep up . ! Enough of these girls bikes .!



Pour the sauce .

Norton .


Honda


Pity the poms are designing japanese bikes as british , these days . Stamped out toy ones . Thats NOT ' Engineering ' . Its Cost accountants & ' product ' . Theyre all hidiously compromised . Now .

Of all the bikes I’ve ridden on track, the most impressive have been the purpose built factory race machines. I’ve been fortunate to be able to sample TZ250, 350, and 750, and own a Honda RS250 which Ive quite a bit of track time upon.

Modified modern street/sport bikes can be lovely (I currently race a Ducati 848) but they just don’t have the edge and feel of the machines made for the job. That the Honda weighs in at 250lb wet certainly doesn’t hurt…. It’s the only machine Ive ever ridden where you could push the front away in mid turn with your knee down and GET IT BACK without luck, effort or drama. I’ve saved the Duc from similar circumstances once or twice and was never sure if I fixed the slide or just got lucky.

Anyway, the Manx has always been a bucket list machine for me, and Ive only been close to them when on display. My most recent bike purchase is an Atlas, chosen simply because the heritage of the chassis. I know it’s nothing close to a Manx and never will be, but the family heritage is there and it’s a close as I’m likely to get at the present.

I did manage to get my mitts on a Husqvarna Vitpilen 701 in the brief wink of time they were being made- it has the spirit of the Manx in some respects, being a performance single made with few compromises, and if you squint a bit you can sorta see the Manx design influence. It’s light and fun, and makes the right thumper sounds. It’s even respectably fast, with an honest 70+rwhp. One must take what one can get, I suppose.

@ Elfix, I too was always kinda interested in Manx‘s. But only got my first go on one last year. It was a top spec modern Manx, short stroke, 4 valves, 6 speed, etc. I was utterly blown away by how good it was ! I have never ridden an original though, so cannot compare them.

@ Al, VFR400 vs. Manx is an interesting one. I‘m a big fan of 400s as I think they make superb track toys. But if comparing one to a modern Manx, they seem to have a similar power, but the Manx is much lighter. So if all else was equal, (rider skill, machine prep, etc) I’d say you’re wrong and the Manx would have it quite comfortably. An original Manx would be at a disadvantage to the modern one, but as I understand it, the difference is not massive on the tarmac.

Long time ago I got the opportunity to ride some laps on a brand new Aermacchi 350 racer with triangular tyres as fitted by the factory. When comparing it to my 350 Manx, I think I made better laptimes on the same track with the Aermacchi. Lighter, less air resistance very narrow fairing and better brakes. The narrow mid section of the tyres made it difficult to keep a straight line. In the corners with the big footprint it was lovely. My heavily modified CB 250 racer is 50 lbs lighter, decent handling and better brakes than the Manx. My 250 RDLC racer is even lighter and have more power but handling not so good as the Manx.
Back in the fifties as a private rider the Manx was the best racer you could buy (except that some preferred the boy racer). It was so good that some top world championship riders had Manxes for domestic races which the Italian factories was not interested in. (My Manx was made in a batch for John Surtees)

Four Manx Cylinder Engine !


Anyone Dropped one of these in a Manx Chassis ?

Providently, the experimental water-cooled Norton “500” single built by BRM in 1949 would provide much useful data. It had developed 47bhp at 7,000rpm on test while the air-cooled works engine only developed 44.2bhp, a gain of 6.3% running on 72 octane “pool” petrol .Applying this to the 1951 works Norton “500” x 4, equated to over 190bhp, not factoring in the potential gain from being able to use alcohol-based fuel.


If anyones got a few million pounds spare , http://www.pnmengineering.com/lotus-pnmvanwall.html and a hacksaw , we could cut it in two , a Twin Head and a single !

BAH . ! 4 valve water coolled ' MANX ' cylinder - 4 head picture WONT go ON .


Try this as well . SAME ERA mega nutter engine spec. Commonin production trash now .

The first road race meeting I attended was at Fisherman's Bend in 1954. I watched Geoff Duke with the Gilera 4s trounce all the Manxes, Fron 1958, I was always at road race meetings whenever they were help in VIctoria. Manx Nortons were raced by A grade riders in three capacity classes - Junior, Senior and Allpowers. In the Allpowers class, Arthur Pimm used to race a 1000cc Norvin against the Manxes. I saw him win a race at Phillip Island, but never on a shorter circuit.
The theory is that the best motor in the best frame makes the best race bike - but it usually does not work like that. My 500cc Triton was faster down the front straight at Calder than any Manx. But that is not how you win races.
My mate bought that Ginger Molloy Manx in New Zealand for $500. After he crashed it, he offered it to me for $1300 in 1973. I did not buy it because I could not justify owning it. THere was no rasce class for it except in Historics, and Historics have always bee a dog's breakfast. The did not justify the expense. I sold a good TZ350G for the same reason. They cost an arm and a leg to race, and if the racing is stupid, it just becomes a waste of good
The only moderrn bike I have ever ridden was a VFR400 Honda . When I rode it, I did not have to even think.
A Manx is different. When you ride it, you need to be sensitive to what it does, then you can go faster.
When Richard Bendell crashed that 500 Manx, my mate and I were way ahead of him in a race at Winton on our Tritons. My mate said that Manx was slow. But I have ridden both his 650 Triton and the 500 Manx on Calder Raceway. His Triton is a blur down the straight, but the Manx would kill it in the corners. When I raced my 500 Triton against him, we were always neck and neck.
It is a very stange thing. I think the position of the centre of gravity is extremely important - it is a matter of feel. Sometimes the bike can help you to be faster.

A Molnar Manx is different - it is not the real deal. So you can use it to extinction. There is probably not one genuine Manx left in Australia which is unmodified.

When you are faster around the corners, you enter the next straight faster, and the other guys have make up your lead and pass you. If you enter the straight 10 MPH faster, that is a very big advantage. The other guy needs a lot of horsepower to get in front again. If you get passed, it should always be at the ends of the straights. Then they have to handle the high speed approach to the corner.

I think the position of the centre of gravity is extremely important - it is a matter of feel. Sometimes the bike can help you to be faster.

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This should do the trick ; Center of Gravity is 3500 Rover . as these B.O.P 215 Cu. In . came out in 61 ,
they should be Classic eligable .

The only moderrn bike I have ever ridden was a VFR400 Honda . When I rode it, I did not have to even think.

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I think you might have to think very carefully , opening it up , on this .



Probly a bit quicker than a Triton , in a straight line . They Drop STRAIGHT IN .

With a few obvious additions and alterations . 150 to 500 horse power .

Australian Leyland Cars - P76 – F5000 – V8​

Of course , the Manx Chassis has more room , than the standard Norton featherbed .

One of my friends is religious. He lives in Glenrowan where Ned Kelly the bushranger became famous, and he is carrying on the tradition. He is a member of the God Squad bikey gang which saves people from sex drugs and rock and roll. He built a sand racer which had a turbocharged V8 Chev motor. There is a track on his property which goes out one gate and in another and around his yard. He and his idiot godbotherer mates all tried riding the sand racer around that track. There was not one of them who did not crash it. And two of them went to hospital. I suspect they all smoke dope.

acotrel said:

One of my friends is religious. He lives in Glenrowan where Ned Kelly the bushranger became famous, and he is carrying on the tradition. He is a member of the God Squad bikey gang which saves people from sex drugs and rock and roll. He built a sand racer which had a turbocharged V8 Chev motor. There is a track on his property which goes out one gate and in another and around his yard. He and his idiot godbotherer mates all tried riding the sand racer around that track. There was not one of them who did not crash it. And two of them went to hospital. I suspect they all smoke dope.

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Tell them they need to put slits in their buckets next time