Manx Norton’s have more in common with Moto GP bikes than we might think…

acotrel · Oct 29, 2022

Fast Eddie said:
Well I had a very interesting event yesterday…

At Cadwell Park with my 920 Commando, which really doesn’t hang about.

I accidentally had the gearing just about perfect, hitting peak rpm in top at the end of the straight (on a good lap).

I rode behind a friend on his 4 valve Manx for a bit. On the straight, starting from right behind him, I could just about get my front wheel along side him, no chance of getting past him.

And that’s on my 920 with the gearing cock on for max speed down the straight.

I was amazed. Yes the Manx is perhaps 100lbs lighter and yes it’s fully faired, but still, I really wasn’t expecting it to be that quick.

Then it turns out his bike was running rich and not even revving out fully FFS !

And then… he let me have a go on it... oh my word… suddenly my Commando felt like a Transit van !!

If your bike is faster around the corner it will usually be fast enough towards the end of the straights

acotrel · Oct 29, 2022

acotrel said:
If your bike is faster around the corner it will usually be fast enough towards the end of the straights . Most bikes cannot accelerate hard all the way around as.cornner.

acotrel · Oct 29, 2022

You need more trail

acotrel · Oct 29, 2022

acotrel said:
You need more trail not morei horsepower

acotrel · Oct 29, 2022

At 70 bhp more trail will not.kill you

acotrel · Oct 30, 2022

The best rider on any Manx will never beat my Seeley 850. I have ridden both.

acotrel · Oct 30, 2022

As soon as I enter any corner. I am on full blast the whole way around. It is not me. It is the bike

Fast Eddie · Oct 30, 2022

acotrel said:
The best rider on any Manx will never beat my Seeley 850. I have ridden both.

Really?
You’ve ridden a 4 valve, short stroke, 6 speed Molnar Manx ?

acotrel · Oct 30, 2022

Have they got increased rake. If not they have no hope.

acotrel · Oct 30, 2022

A feather bed frame with 30 deg. rake might be good.

acotrel · Oct 30, 2022

acotrel said:
A feather bed frame with 30 deg. rake might be good. You could really fang it.

acotrel · Oct 30, 2022

Or 26 deg with 19 inch wheels

Fast Eddie · Oct 31, 2022

acotrel said:
Have they got increased rake. If not they have no hope.

The one I rode was a Molnar frame, as I’ve said before, they are standard Norton dimensions, inc the rake.

It was the best handling bike I’ve ever ridden on the track.

And it produced significantly more power than your 850 motor Al.

acotrel · Oct 31, 2022

Fast Eddie said:
The one I rode was a Molnar frame, as I’ve said before, they are standard Norton dimensions, inc the rake.

It was the best handling bike I’ve ever ridden on the track.

And it produced significantly more your 850 motor Al.

You are obsessed with power. You do not need that much when you can accelerate really hard all the way thru the corners. A Manx will only allow a small bit of that.

acotrel · Oct 31, 2022

acotrel said:
You are obsessed with power. You do not need that much when you can accelerate really hard all the way thru the corners. A Manx will only allow a small bit of that.

More powerfull bikes Catch up towards ends of straights

acotrel · Oct 31, 2022

Find out the trails for the Manx and Seeley. Why do you think the Manx was superseded

Fast Eddie · Oct 31, 2022

acotrel said:
Find out the trails for the Manx and Seeley. Why do you think the Manx was superseded

I don’t need to thanks.
You could say the same about a Seeley vs a Fireblade !
I‘m not obsessed with power Al, I’m just pragmatic. If two bikes handle almost the same, and are ridden by riders of almost the same ability, then the bike with more power has an advantage.
In the world of racing, that can surely not be a topic of debate?

acotrel · Oct 31, 2022

acotrel said:
Find out the trails for the Manx and Seeley. Why do you think the Manx was superseded

Fast Eddie said:
I don’t need to thanks.
You could say the same about a Seeley vs a Fireblade !
I‘m not obsessed with power Al, I’m just pragmatic. If two bikes handle almost the same, and are ridden by riders of almost the same ability, then the bike with more power has an advantage.
In the world of racing, that can surely not be a topic of debate?

The point is bikes do not all handle the same. A handling advantage can outweigh a power advantage

acotrel · Oct 31, 2022

acotrel said:
The point is bikes do not all handle the same. A handling advantage can outweigh a power advantage -

A lot depends on the circuit.

acotrel said:
a lot depends on the circuit.

Fast Eddie · Oct 31, 2022

acotrel said:
The point is bikes do not all handle the same.

You don’t know that. When we’re taking Seeley vs Manx I believe they are close enough in basic handling ability for spec and set up to swing the advantage one way or the other.
A forum member on here was surprised this year when he lapped as quick on his ES2 powered Petty Manx as he did on his Commando Seeley.

All that said, fundamentally, I agree with you that if both bikes were built to the same spec, and all else was equal, the Seeley would have the advantage over a Manx.
However, I do find your rather dismissive attitude regarding just how good a top modern Manx is rather odd, especially when you have never ridden one.