Keepin up with pete.

Jim, is your frame webbing notched out? Shocking!

pete.v said:

Jim, is your frame webbing notched out? Shocking!

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Yep, that's been gone for about 25 years. Never missed it. Jim

Check out the "Pre-Compressor Sprayer" - about two thirds down this page - http://howertonengineering.com/howerton ... ist-items/

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Neat vender xbackslider but those sprayers mount with a center stud which would be an issue with the Lake Injector mounted smack on the face of the impeller 1/4" away, so may be room to drill a passage in there as plan b. Plan a, is bent pipe slightly off center to miss the vertical fuel tube 'pipe' with needle 'nail' in the middle. Would not want the methanol flow to interfere with the automatic air mass density metering of fuel that otherwise takes 3D digit maps. Hard to find pure methanol supercharging references but these are along injection subject hillbilly way.

Short teaser study
http://papers.sae.org/971647/


It seems even now to be a little recognised fact that adding just a proportion of the fuel before the supercharger is a very effective method of lowering charge temperature by evaporation during compression, as well as being a good method of mixture preparation. There is an efficiency gain here which is not immediately obvious. Cooling the charge as it is compressed is of more benefit than any form of cooling after the event (by an inter-cooler for instance, although further charge-cooling may still be beneficial) because the work consumed by the compressor will be reduced. Water or water/methanol injection can be used for the same purpose. This important advantage is denied to the Roots device because of its lack of internal compression. Stanley Hooker estimated that adding fuel ahead of the supercharger dropped the air temperature by 25 degrees C on the Merlin, enabling it to consistently outperform the larger and supposedly more advanced German engines with direct fuel injection into the cylinders. Fuel has to be added anyway so why not add it where it will do most good?
...
There is still another fallacy that needs to be dispelled. The idea that a supercharged engine must have a low compression ratio. Lower perhaps, but not by much. The old idea that compression must be reduced dramatically merely produces an engine that is unresponsive and thirsty in the off-boost condition. A much better approach is to use the highest practical compression ratio, then control the delivery temperature and ignition timing when on boost. In fact the high pressures and greater charge turbulence speed up the combustion process anyway so it all comes back to the air delivery temperature being the critical factor ...

more... http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/supercharging_article.php

I'm with you completely, all of it, except, maybe, for one thing - the threaded hole in the center of the ring is to hold the jet that sprays 50/50 methanol/water. The ring sits inside the inlet pipe between the air cleaner and up against the compressor's inlet; it is clamped in place with a second hose clamp. It ought to sit tight to the compressor inlet so that the jet's cone is aimed at/around the compressor shaft's nut so that the cone of spray hits the roots, as opposed to the tips, of the inducer's blades. The back side of the jet is fed by a 4mm nylon tube that enters the unpressurized pre-compressor intake tract through a grommet or bulkhead adapter. The 50/50 is delivered to the jet by way of a pump, or even by way of boost pressure applied to a sealed reservoir. The injector ring could be set back far enough to not interfere with your Lake injector.

The only other reservation I have - from a safety point of view - I don't like vaporizing gasoline and then compressing it in the intake tract before it is truly contained by the engine's cylinder and cylinder head. 50/50, as opposed to gasoline or a % greater than 50/50, won't burn and won't explode.

David Vizard (A-Series tuning) was really big on a 1/4 inch or something radius at the bellmouth. Maybe the velocity stack to flat like that is enough. But you're just the man to find out...

Great looking setup.

I would agree, 1/4 inch radius would be about the minimum amount you could use. The new backplate to throttle body has a 1/2 inch radius entrance but it is hard to see in the pictures.

Here are the new parts finished. All powdercoated billet magnesium.

This is the new rear filter plate, the injector holder with injectors and the fuel rail .



Here is the backplate with the injectors and air filter installed



This is the front side of the back plate with the injectors in place.



Here is the rear and front plates with the filters in place



Here is what you have when they are fit together





It all fits and fills the hole quite nicely





Tomorrow I make up studs and spacers and a new pair of push-pull throttle cables.
I am going to run it first with just the rear injectors and if I think I can get better low speed operation or starting I will go ahead and install the front injectors. Jim

Wow!

Mark said:

Wow!

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+1 :mrgreen:

Be aware that equipment testers in quarries and Wes and I have so very much sworn off k/n grit passing ring eating racing screens, so best stick to low wind well paved conditions for the long term sucking in joyous dual injected cfm's. Wes lurks but was current on comnoz inventions to discuss while telling me my mini bike vapor carb couldn't work as designed, then we both got big grins doing the impossible on more power lugging to top out than the carb could, after discussing the ring change events till foam wrapping over the sleek decorative k/n cutie pies. I no longer capitalize wd40 or boyah anymore either for same reasons.

hobot said:

Be aware that equipment testers in quarries and Wes and I have so very much sworn off k/n grit passing ring eating racing screens, so best stick to low wind well paved conditions for the long term sucking in joyous dual injected cfm's. Wes lurks but was current on comnoz inventions to discuss while telling me my mini bike vapor carb couldn't work as designed, then we both got big grins doing the impossible on more power lugging to top out than the carb could, after discussing the ring change events till foam wrapping over the sleek decorative k/n cutie pies. I no longer capitalize wd40 or boyah anymore either for same reasons.

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If this was a dirt bike I might be using an oiled foam, but since the bike has been running since 1982 with some kind of K&N filter I think I will stick with them. They do flow better. Jim

Ok then you are aware of k/n type oiled fabric limits that ain't much a downside if can stick to civilized conditions. What else can we discuss on you creatation w/o digging into digital maps, dyno recording and road reports.

Meanwhile back at Ricochet Rabbit Riding Range and Rifle Ranch...
I'm still chuffed at Wes's disbelief of vapor canteen sans gas tank performance so pondering on Commando just for fun. Will zip tie a wrap of sock for its intake filter but don't know how to account for any restriction yet or throws off the mixture magical fiddling fun. Its a gear head teaser delighter, non digital analog mouse trap trial-error contraption that once zoned works a treat idle to WOT LUGGING unstallable!!!, but if sat a spell or sun goes down, next time its a new puzzler to solve. If stubborn found analog injecting carb cleaner into 2ndary air valve gets a fire going to start puzzling till riding. Can't wait to see how the land speeders get off on it. First glance reveals no tank and nice exposed head fins, second glance reveals what appears to be a gas tank, 3rd look is to double check carb w/o a liquid fuel line, 4th glance trace the intake tube to bottom then the steel pipe out top with a seires of holes and sliding tube cover that plugs in to stock carb for built in throttle. Then head cocks and eye brows rise with the corners of the mouth. Only practical use might be the triple mileage and clean oil from fuller compbustion. Oh yeah as gasoline is bubbled the lighter parts evaporate first then also refrigerates so many gizmos installed to reheat to burn. I solved it with a piece tidy of sheet scrap that puffs some exhaust on ally tank so one corner stays warm to the touch but oppoiste corner cool, perfecto! Attitude is on the land speeder minds so they may find it extra interesting as I learn more about it the old school way.

I got the bike out for it's first ride with the new fuel system today. Did a little 70 mile loop and I have to say the bike has never run better in it's life. First squeeze starts every time hot or cold.
I installed the idle speed control that I had built some time back and it works perfect with a cold idle of 1250 and dropping to 1050 when warmed up. The powerband is completely flat with no holes or bumps anywhere. The peak power is about the same as it was with the injectors mounted close to the head but the horsepower curve is almost a strait line from 2500 to 6500. It easily pulls up to the rev limiter in high at 6500 rpm and 120 mph. I found myself turning the throttle on too soon when when exiting corners as the power is there instantly now with no more harsh transition from trailing to leading throttle.
I am looking forward to putting some real miles on it. Jim

comnoz said:

I got the bike out for it's first ride with the new fuel system today. Did a little 70 mile loop and I have to say the bike has never run better in it's life. First squeeze starts every time hot or cold.
I installed the idle speed control that I had built some time back and it works perfect with a cold idle of 1250 and dropping to 1050 when warmed up. The powerband is completely flat with no holes or bumps anywhere. The peak power is about the same as it was with the injectors mounted close to the head but the horsepower curve is almost a strait line from 2500 to 6500. It easily pulls up to the rev limiter in high at 6500 rpm and 120 mph. I found myself turning the throttle on too soon when when exiting corners as the power is there instantly now with no more harsh transition from trailing to leading throttle.
I am looking forward to putting some real miles on it. Jim

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Ok that's just nasty!!!
Well done Jim.
What's that thing underneath mounted on the modified gearbox cradle?

Your comment about changing from trailing to leading throttle - you need to try methanol some time, - with my bike the transiton is smooth and instantaneous, and the geometry inspires you to gas it very early.

Dkt26 said:

Ok that's just nasty!!!
Well done Jim.
What's that thing underneath mounted on the modified gearbox cradle?

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That is a voltage regulator from a Hardly Ableson to go with the 35 amp alternator that's on it. I would like to find a better place to hide it. Jim

Including the genius of the mechanicals, I love the look of the fairing, windshield, and the 57 Chevyish fuel injection logo. I also wonder what your fuel economy will be. Well done in the extreme.

aceaceca said:

Including the genius of the mechanicals, I love the look of the fairing, windshield, and the 57 Chevyish fuel injection logo. I also wonder what your fuel economy will be. Well done in the extreme.

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Thanks
Last trip with the 880cc motor and the single throttle the bike ran from 65 to 70 MPG.
I will find out next week how the fuel mileage is. Bonneville here we come.

There are a few guys in the MG world who have injected their MGBs and so forth, and they report some pretty great fuel mileage to go along with improved power. I have a petty good running 1500 like used in the MGA with crisply fueled SUs (I run an O2 sensor for tuning) and get maybe 24 mpg on my best tank, whereas one guy reported 40-45 from his 1800 B. I typically get 45 out of the stock 850 with Amal Premiers and a Tri-Spark.

Well done and fine packaging of that stuff!

350 miles in this afternoon. Not getting great mileage but it was 150 miles of twisty mountain roads and passes, 100 miles of twisty roads with wind and rain followed by 100 miles of desolate Utah superslab at 85 to dry out. It was a good day. Jim

comnoz said:

I installed the idle speed control that I had built some time back and it works perfect with a cold idle of 1250 and dropping to 1050 when warmed up.

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Air solenoid?

What are you using to run the whole shebang?

Totally enamored!

Nathan