What did you do with your P11 today. he he

o0norton0o said:
I though I would get both a buttery smooth ride and better traction at the same time... little did I know then that those qualities are opposite ends of the same stick.
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Not really true with better forks. You can or could have it all with Ohlins Road and Track fork kits. Unfortunately, no kits for Norton. lcrken has Ohlins forks on a Commando project. He may have figured out how to make them work. Finding those forks new though isn't particularly easy, but probably possible.

This is my 996S I put an Ohlins Road and Track fork kit on. World of difference over the Showa forks that came on it. I do wish I'd kept those Showa USD forks. They would have looked nasty on the P11.

What did you do with your P11 today. he he


The CRS GP35 forks I'm talking about are fully adjustable and have something similar to Showa internals, which means they will never have it all, but be close enough for a bike that only gets ridden a few times a year. lol
 
Went for a test ride. The CRS GP35 forks are slightly better than before with the change in oil weight and reduced oil capacity. They still feel like track oriented forks without the riding on clouds feature for the street to me. There's a lot to it, and I'm still working on the it part. (Insert google AI generated definition for tuning motorcycle suspension here.) I don't have the bandwidth to write down what I know about suspension. lol
 
When I was doing my project I was emailing with Ken. He didn't have an Olins damper set. As far as I know his grandson rides a commando with a home made showa set like mine that Ken modified to fit. I think any hopes of getting an Olins set for stock norton forks ended with Dan Kyle's passing. He did post here a few times. To my knowledge there's no Olins internals in stock norton forks anywhere. As far as getting both ends of the stick (comfort and traction performance) it doesn't seem likely for a few reasons, but technology changes possibilities. The shim stack valves changed the compromising nature of damper performance, maybe there's some spring technology that will change the limitations of spring performance too... I have to re-read a few chapters of the book. I always knew I couldn't absorb it with a single read through... Originally my guess was reading each chapter 3 times and by the third time I'd have a clear understanding...
 
There are off the shelf K-Tech kits for Roadholder forks. K-Tech are of a similar (some would argue better) quality and performance to Ohlins.
 
Fast Eddie said:
There are off the shelf K-Tech kits for Roadholder forks. K-Tech are of a similar (some would argue better) quality and performance to Ohlins.
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Probably true for classic Norton guys trying to make Ohlins work on something Ohlins never really supported.

You own a 961 with Ohlins on it right? Are the Ohlins forks inferior to Roadholders in your opinion?
 
Schwany said:
Probably true for classic Norton guys trying to make Ohlins work on something Ohlins never really supported.

You own a 961 with Ohlins on it right? Are the Ohlins forks inferior to Roadholders in your opinion?
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I’m not really sure why you think I would think that !

oOnortonOo was talking about the fact that Ohlins never produced a kit for Norton forks, one was being developed by Dan Kyle before he sadly passed, but no-one has picked up that batton.

Therefore folk might be interested to know there is a very, very good alternative. The K-Tech kit undoubtedly provides for the best possible ‘off the shelf’ Roadholders.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
I’m not really sure why you think I would think that !
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Copied this out of your comments "K-Tech are of a similar (some would argue better) quality and performance to Ohlins"

What is that supposed to refer to? I certainly could have misinterpreted it.
 
Schwany said:
Copied this out of your comments "K-Tech are of a similar (some would argue better) quality and performance to Ohlins"

What is that supposed to refer to? I certainly could have misinterpreted it.
Click to expand...
I’m really not sure where our wires are getting crossed ?

When I wrote that "K-Tech are of a similar (some would argue better) quality and performance to Ohlins"… I meant just that!

Compare any like for like product or component and the K-Tech offering is at least as good as the Ohlins offering.

Nowhere did I suggest that Roadholders were better than Ohlins… I think we both agree that’d be a bit silly !!
 
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I went to the K-tech website, The design of the only damper that came up when I searched for "norton" looked exactly like my dampers, and judging by my own experience and reading their product text I would bet their dampers are 20mm shim stack dampers, so if some would argue that the k-tech are better, I'd like to hear WHY....

I've ridden a lot on stock commando dampers. I bought the landsdowne dampers and rode them for more than full a season, then made my own and copied the Cosentino style damper which is based on the 20mm showa. I'm 2 years into testing. I've probably changed dampers, springs, and fluid viscosities more than 50 times... I have 2 different style shim stack valves in different damper sets, The suzuki valves are very close in design to the Racetech gold valves which cost a fortune. I can't tell any difference between the honda (showa) and the suzuki (showa) secondary valves and they are clearly different.

People's claims that their dampers are "the shit" have been made before. The landsdownes have no secondary circuit so one orifice setting controls 2 distinctively different types of damper movement (low speed and high speed) which require different settings to be optimized for either type of movement. The landsdowne dude never stopped crowing about how a few racers were doing well with his dampers, but never addressed the fact that he didn't have a secondary circuit which is a good feature for public roads. (probably not all that necessary for a race track) Sure the landsdownes are much better than stock dampers and maybe a pretty good choice for a race bike, but argue the technology and the science, not the reputation fueled by gossip.

I'm not buying arguments that don't include science and clear explanations of why the same exact design by company A is a better product than company B
 
o0norton0o said:
I went to the K-tech website, The design of the only damper that came up when I searched for "norton" looked exactly like my dampers, and judging by my own experience and reading their product text I would bet their dampers are 20mm shim stack dampers, so if some would argue that the k-tech are better, I'd like to hear WHY....

I've ridden a lot on stock commando dampers. I bought the landsdowne dampers and rode them for more than full a season, then made my own and copied the Cosentino style damper which is based on the 20mm showa. I'm 2 years into testing. I've probably changed dampers, springs, and fluid viscosities more than 50 times... I have 2 different style shim stack valves in different damper sets, The suzuki valves are very close in design to the Racetech gold valves which cost a fortune. I can't tell any difference between the honda (showa) and the suzuki (showa) secondary valves and they are clearly different.

People's claims that their dampers are "the shit" have been made before. The landsdownes have no secondary circuit so one orifice setting controls 2 distinctively different types of damper movement (low speed and high speed) which require different settings to be optimized for either type of movement. The landsdowne dude never stopped crowing about how a few racers were doing well with his dampers, but never addressed the fact that he didn't have a secondary circuit which is a good feature for public roads. (probably not all that necessary for a race track) Sure the landsdownes are much better than stock dampers and maybe a pretty good choice for a race bike, but argue the technology and the science, not the reputation fueled by gossip.

I'm not buying arguments that don't include science and clear explanations of why the same exact design by company A is a better product than company B
Click to expand...

Sorry to have caused such offence.

As I said earlier, you lamented the unavailability of an off the shelf Ohlins kit for Roadholders. The whole purpose of mentioning K-Tech was to say that their products are at least as good as Ohlins (generally speaking) and that they do actually offer a Roadholder kit… so folk CAN buy an off the shelf Ohlins quality conversion IF they want to.

I thought (still do) that folk interested in good off the shelf options might be interested to hear of the K-Tech offering.

This is, after all, used by many IOM riders (a road).

I don’t recall saying that this, or anything else, was better than what you have done personally!

In summary…

For those who are interested in an excellent ‘off the shelf / bolt in’ Ohlins quality upgrade: Check out K-Tech.

For those who aren’t: Don’t.

Kinda all I’ve got to say really.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Sorry to have caused such offence.

As I said earlier, you lamented the unavailability of an off the shelf Ohlins kit for Roadholders. The whole purpose of mentioning K-Tech was to say that their products are at least as good as Ohlins (generally speaking) and that they do actually offer a Roadholder kit… so folk CAN buy an off the shelf Ohlins quality conversion IF they want to.

I thought (still do) that folk interested in good off the shelf options might be interested to hear of the K-Tech offering.

This is, after all, used by many IOM riders (a road).

I don’t recall saying that this, or anything else, was better than what you have done personally!

In summary…

For those who are interested in an excellent ‘off the shelf / bolt in’ Ohlins quality upgrade: Check out K-Tech.

For those who aren’t: Don’t.

Kinda all I’ve got to say really.
Click to expand...

Lamenting funny

I had a feeling you were limiting your input to damping and cartridge emulator kits only. Now it makes some sense. I mistakenly thought you were implying the Roadholders with a K-Tech kit in them are as good as the Ohlins forks. I knew you had Ohlins forks on the 961, so asked if that is actually what you thought.

During the damper cartridge emulator discussion o0Norton0o said you can't have both road and race compliant forks. (Probably misunderstood that too, and he was only referring to damper or cartridge kits.) I know for a fact that is Not true as far as forks are concerned. So I brought up an example using off the shelf Ohlins Road and Track bolt on complete fork kits, NOT internal damper or cartridge kits. If I was lamenting it was for Norton owners with Commandos not have the option to ride on the best forks out there. Or what was the best in 1996 anyway. Don't need anyone to agree with me. I have my own delusional bubble to live in.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
I’m really not sure where our wires are getting crossed ?

When I wrote that "K-Tech are of a similar (some would argue better) quality and performance to Ohlins"… I meant just that!

Compare any like for like product or component and the K-Tech offering is at least as good as the Ohlins offering.

Nowhere did I suggest that Roadholders were better than Ohlins… I think we both agree that’d be a bit silly !!
Click to expand...
Sorry about my BS

Didn't read this before the other post. Yeah all makes sense now.
 
o0norton0o said:
I'm not buying arguments that don't include science and clear explanations of why the same exact design by company A is a better product than company B
Click to expand...
Does mad science count? I failed in technobabble. I'm more of a hacksaw and file action figure with crazy ideas.
 
Schwany said:
Lamenting funny

I had a feeling you were limiting your input to damping and cartridge emulator kits only. Now it makes some sense. I mistakenly thought you were implying the Roadholders with a K-Tech kit in them are as good as the Ohlins forks. I knew you had Ohlins forks on the 961, so asked if that is actually what you thought.

During the damper cartridge emulator discussion o0Norton0o said you can't have both road and race compliant forks. (Probably misunderstood that too, and he was only referring to damper or cartridge kits.) I know for a fact that is Not true as far as forks are concerned. So I brought up an example using off the shelf Ohlins Road and Track bolt on complete fork kits, NOT internal damper or cartridge kits. If I was lamenting it was for Norton owners with Commandos not have the option to ride on the best forks out there. Or what was the best in 1996 anyway. Don't need anyone to agree with me. I have my own delusional bubble to live in.
Click to expand...

You’re right I do have an Ohlins equipped 961. Funnily enough I also have a set of Molnar Roadholders with K-Tech internals, and also a set of the CRS forks like you have (all attached to bikes).

My conclusion is that once you get to this level of mechanics, it all comes down to the set up. What I mean is, they’re all very good, so which one is better or worse is purely down to how well (or not) you manage to set them up.
 
o0norton0o said:
I went to the K-tech website, The design of the only damper that came up when I searched for "norton" looked exactly like my dampers, and judging by my own experience and reading their product text I would bet their dampers are 20mm shim stack dampers, so if some would argue that the k-tech are better, I'd like to hear WHY....

I've ridden a lot on stock commando dampers. I bought the landsdowne dampers and rode them for more than full a season, then made my own and copied the Cosentino style damper which is based on the 20mm showa. I'm 2 years into testing. I've probably changed dampers, springs, and fluid viscosities more than 50 times... I have 2 different style shim stack valves in different damper sets, The suzuki valves are very close in design to the Racetech gold valves which cost a fortune. I can't tell any difference between the honda (showa) and the suzuki (showa) secondary valves and they are clearly different.

People's claims that their dampers are "the shit" have been made before. The landsdownes have no secondary circuit so one orifice setting controls 2 distinctively different types of damper movement (low speed and high speed) which require different settings to be optimized for either type of movement. The landsdowne dude never stopped crowing about how a few racers were doing well with his dampers, but never addressed the fact that he didn't have a secondary circuit which is a good feature for public roads. (probably not all that necessary for a race track) Sure the landsdownes are much better than stock dampers and maybe a pretty good choice for a race bike, but argue the technology and the science, not the reputation fueled by gossip.

I'm not buying arguments that don't include science and clear explanations of why the same exact design by company A is a better product than company B
Click to expand...
If you have a good handle on all the shim stack technology, and can modify valving to get the results you are looking for, it is impressive skill to have.

The CRS GP35 forks are similar to Showa apparently, but I don't know how similar. Wouldn't really know where to start or finish modifying the internals. It would be great if all I had to do was pull the compression adjusters out and change the compression damping adjuster stacks and maybe enlarge a couple of holes a little, based on information specific to the GP35 forks documented somewhere. Unfortunately, I'd be winging it and ruin them more than likely.
 
More CRS GP35R fork shenanigans: Turns out I've lost 15lbs over the last year and I also removed 15lbs of sprung weight on the P11 with the Molnar crank, Molnar barrels, and RGM belt clutch. So I thought it might be a good idea to remove the 45lb rate springs and put the 30lb rate springs back in with the reduction in fork oil. Little better on the street, but not perfect yet. Rear shocks need some preload taken out of them as well.

I have more to do with the forks, but that caps of my 2025 what did you do with your P11 BS.
 

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