Govt. Bailout, Norton Style

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Sorry if "clone" was too strong, but that was how they were described by the press at the time. The first models- 1990?- were certainly pretty unexciting "Universal Japanese Motorcycle" lookalikes, and the tripple engine happened rather than was planned in that it was but a "castrated" four cylinder engine for the smaller capacity bikes at first. It made the use of the 4s conrods, pistons, valves etc possible.
So, a bit against original intentions, it landed Triumph with its niche in the market. As for their supposed instant success, in the early 1990s there was a rumour in the industry Bloor had a year's production put away in storage because nobody wanted them. It is certainly true that, for example, in Italy the "new for the season" models did not arrive one year. The importers made out there was no model change and sold the previous year's models for another season.
However, Bloor could afford these downfalls and survive them. Shareholders in public companies will not stand for that sort of thing and that company would go under never to rise again. Triumph did not.
 
The state of world economy at the moment doesnt seem to me to suggest capitalism works that well...............and perhaps most of the 23 million people in the US who are currently unemployed would possibly agree?

Capitalism (greed) is also the main reason for the failure of the once great British motorcycle industry, which in the years when it was highly profitable, invested little or nothing in developing new machines, and seemed to think customers would continue to buy bikes with 40 year old engine designs............a hope which quickly evaporated in the face of competition from the Japanese!

Globalist Banksters have confused the language to rationally discuss economics with mere high school text book definitions. As much as UK auto and cycle industry management shot their own selves in feet these globalist banksters and the politicians they owned had their sights set on over seas development while doing Communist experimenting with the British workers. Capitalism used to to mean fair competition for best profit and product not behind the senses fraud and social agenda and control. Marxism got its start in City of London not Greater London or Russia-USSR. Ignorance of above misses at least half the influence in dulling the Golden age of British Iron, as almost every innovation now common originated in English engineers. I love to tease Boxer bikers and VW cage'rs on this.

What really gave Japan a leg up over BI was banksters introduction of 1000 'dollar' no credit check credit cards and a bunch of small bikes in that price range you could met the nicest people on.
 
I think the early Triumph triples probably owed more to Suzuki than Kawsaki (albeit with one cylinder removed!), and supposedly some Suzuki parts will actually fit the Triumph motors?

Capitalism in any form relates more directly to greed than any desire to produce quality products or to provide jobs. Manufacturing industry in the UK is now pretty much finished due to this, with most production now being carried out in the Far East or former Soviet country's.
 
Capitalism in any form relates more directly to greed than any desire to produce quality products or to provide jobs.

Ugh, can't argue that ain't the way of the bigger bankster world and plugging in the math on Musical Chair money system implies we won't have any markets on anything at some point for an undetermined period. Hope I'm as miss informed as you'd like me to believe.

My little village is a wide spot in hub of world famous riding conditions and get to see all the newest and vintage craft, cars to bikes to animal drawn and pleased to say that new Triumphs 675's to 2300's show up more than their share of market compared to many. On that note no other biker shows up in more nasty conditions than the Harleys though BMW are not far behind with Goldwings and then the rest of big cruisers. Ain't see one road going new Norton even on this forum, yet.
 
Manufacturing industry in the UK is now pretty much finished due to this, with most production now being carried out in the Far East or former Soviet country's.
That I wonder about. Whilst the big numbers may suggest that, you must remember they are influenced by the money London banks used to push into, around, and out of the British isles. You may be surprised to hear the machine shops and foundries working for Andover Norton, mainly in the Birmingham area, are working flat out, investing in new machinery, staff, and premises lately. The sectors that are down are the "service industry", but those who can manufacture things have no problems.
When the American way was all the rage a few years ago and some business advisor wisecracks recommended the running down of classic manufacturing and, instead, building up the "service industries just like they do in America" a German politician wisely (!) said "we can't live of cutting each other's hair!".
You may think all manufacture happens in the Far East these days, but there are regions in Europe that contradict that, the Engish Midlands and Germany to name but two. Genuine Norton Factory Parts are still mostly Made in England, with a bit of German and Italian manufacture thrown in.
 
Carbonfibre said:
Capitalism in any form relates more directly to greed than any desire to produce quality products or to provide jobs.

Capitalistic 'greed' would be one way to describe 'return on investment'. Which is something everyone wants, and that includes all the managers of pension funds and even the widows and orphans funds. No one running a company, no matter what size, is in business to provide jobs.

Carbonfibre said:
Manufacturing industry in the UK is now pretty much finished due to this [greed], with most production now being carried out in the Far East or former Soviet country's.

Germany has a thriving manufacturing base. It is no more or less capitalistic than Great Britain, there are many others. The problem in England might be more accurately described as the class system rather than capitalism itself. The successful first world economies appear to have at least one thing in common, an implied social contract. I do not include the US or the UK among them.

Getting back to Triumph, the one thing that every American bike mag raved about was the triple's motor. They didn't just think it is good, a lot of them said it was one of the best ever.
 
I almost steered clear of this post but heat wave and no cycle parts leaves me bored inside... Not here to upset mind sets and agree with most the posted comments, just think they fall short of bigger meaner picture after studying up on Marxist labor union experiments, ore mining and manufacture owners and policy directed by City of London selfish actions, as they are not and do not consider themselves part of England any more than Vatican thinks its part of Italy or same interests.

To my mind any success of British manufacturing is in spite of Banksters influence not because Bank of England gave em a break. Here longish- if mild article on the City of London Elephant in the production lines to be aware of while discussing bailouts to bankruptcy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011 ... l-services
The Cresc paper sketches out a number of suggestions for regional revival including a land value tax, greater local autonomy to raise revenue, higher spending on infrastructure programmes, and the relocating of public sector jobs from [City of] London. Otherwise, it suggests, the future will look a lot like the past. Only more so, because the third question is what happens if the money for the modern Speenhamland is turned off without anything to take its place. Answer: even more rapid decline and still more poverty.
 
You'd have to imagine that Mr Bloor is watching developments at the New Norton with interest.
Chequebook at the ready ?
 
Gosh now there's an Idea, have new Triumph take over the New Norton too, then where would we be on brand battles?
 
Interesting..................I live in the UK and never knew our mining and manufacturing industries were destroyed by "Marxist labor union experiments"! Personally I always thought they had gone down the pan for exactly the same reason as a lot of US manufacturing and production based industries.............the greed of capitalists who are able to increase profits by moving their operations outside of the US!
 
Carbonfibre said:
Interesting..................I live in the UK and never knew our mining and manufacturing industries were destroyed by "Marxist labor union experiments"! !

You must live in a very sheltered world ?
Outside of the UK, the stories of union thuggery and sabotage on the industrial front decades ago were legion. Demarcation between unions in particular...
 
Carbonfibre said:
Interesting..................I live in the UK and never knew our mining and manufacturing industries were destroyed by "Marxist labor union experiments"! Personally I always thought they had gone down the pan for exactly the same reason as a lot of US manufacturing and production based industries.............the greed of capitalists who are able to increase profits by moving their operations outside of the US!

Obviously spoken by someone who has never attempted to make a business survive in the US. Greed is not driving manufacturing out of our country- simply the desire to remain in business. Jim
 
Interesting..................I live in the UK and never knew our mining and manufacturing industries were destroyed by "Marxist labor union experiments"! Personally I always thought they had gone down the pan for exactly the same reason as a lot of US manufacturing and production based industries.............the greed of capitalists who are able to increase profits by moving their operations outside of the US!

Well dear anonymous Carbon-fiber if you don't want to be embarrassed on my blunt statements you'd better back up and read deeper history on who financed and had control of basic mining - coal to metal ores and major foundries, where some the first Marxist experiments done. You are using generalized mental fogging term with 'capitolists' but you are correct they are in same clan and gang as the British bunch, too often being one and the same. You are a sharper mental tack than me, I like that as helps sharpen me up bantering with ya, but you ain't got the right data yet to compute as well as I on this subject. To really get a handle on this deep shit can take years of study to break mental programing of only reading headlines and text book, it sure did me and still hurts me at lost and faith in good world view.

Here's a brief headline level over view of the Marxist/socialist start to get ya pause before blurting out un-supported counter points. Play fair and one of us may learn something shocking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ational.29
The International Workingmen's Association (IWA), also known as the First International, was founded in London in 1864. Victor Le Lubez, a French radical republican living in London, invited Karl Marx to come to London as a representative of German workers.[25]

The Rothschild banking dynasty has been in [City of] London for 200 years, in which time its eponymous bank, NM Rothschild, has been at the heart of Britain’s economic life.
Throughout the rest of the 19th century, NM Rothschild established its pre-eminence, helping Britain buy a controlling stake in the Suez Canal, funding Cecil Rhodes’ British South Africa Company, and buying up large holdings in future giants such as mining company Rio Tinto and diamond miner De Beers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Copper

Meriden was not the only workers’ co-operative created during the period. Keith Bradley has argued that they all became an important laboratory for
the ‘feasibility of worker control strategies that focus on workers gaining
managerial prerogatives.’23 Meriden workers did not consider themselves
exemplars or pioneers.
Treatise on NVT financial conditions
http://www.labour-history.org.uk/suppor ... riden1.PDF
http://www.labour-history.org.uk/suppor ... riden2.PDF

Trestise on bigger schemes with NVT at front and center.
Lost my files on this 3 yr ago, so plain ya didn't have to read between the lines like this long winded detailed referenced review.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... 8w&cad=rja
... the Labour Left's uncrowned king, Mr Benn, took his plans for financing the sitting-in workers' project at Meriden a stage further. They are to get some (five million pounds) from the ample purse that he controls ... Apart from the fact that such schemes seem in a general way an abuse of taxpayers' money, there are two grave, particular objections to them. One is that they must act as an encouragement to workers to think that unauthorised occupation of premises ... is a sure ticket for Mr Benn's cornucopia. The other is that ... Mr Benn has acted against the advice of the Industrial Development Advisory Board ... For Mr Benn no doubt Socialist ideology overrides such considerations. It must be noted, however, that his ability to do those things without going to Parliament is derived from the last Conservative Governments' Industry Act. (27 July 1974)
 
hobot said:
Gosh now there's an Idea, have new Triumph take over the New Norton too, then where would we be on brand battles?
We have the Triumph Rocket three, the next new model will be the "Triumph Commando" :shock:
 
I wish as they could make a cool competitive one, but there's the booga boo on the name game. I know a fella that gave up his Yama FI spending much to hop it up, for the shear power joy of the Rocket 3 in Fla. Uncanny smoothness is my main fascination with C'do's, handling potential the next, and looks and sounds after that.
 
Back in the 70's the Honda Boys thought a Ducati was a bigger p.o.s. than a pommy motorcycle .
But they were mostly superficial , seldom hard riders , and didnt like getting there hands dirty .

' The New Breed of Rider ' . dealer serviced and later tradeds in . were always a few of them about.

NOW; the general bleating and sensationalist press did as much to cut the throats of the industry as
the government . Trendy liberal lefty party animal socialite , um , er . get the drift ?? :p :lol:

but what about my feelings ! :shock: :( oh dear . :wink: :roll: Motorcycles dont have feelings !? :|

The GIST BEING . darn Yamaha driopped the TRX for world Superbikes on a whim. The FZR was easier
WITH their TECNOLOGY BASE . Haga had WON two rounds on the TWIN . they were raceing both together.

But TWINS dont work. everyone knows that ( the press ) archaic , outdated , vibrateing leaky anachronisms
like singles . Just look at Ducati , there hopeless . ! :oops: :p :lol: :shock: thats what they said .

And the average punter fell for it .


Bloor & Norton ?? WHAT is a Norton ?? WELL , if its going to be as good as any , and better than most,
ask the question WHERE . ? the track , or the road . Volumes , quantities and Cost .

To this mug to be better it must be simpler. no non essentials. but the job is going better, so that defines ' ESSENTIALS '
Horsepower , / durability
ridgidity / balance / roadholding
raceing
It always was ' cubic dollars ' .
But the BASIC DESIGN has the ability to be run at those outputs.

1/. the el cheapo , mass prod, not quite there job , provides the layout / tooling specs .

2/. The Second series ( S/C ? ) provides a sound base, to use for gentalmans sporting events
Stronger spec material for main cases and load bearing equipment. SOUND INVESTMENT in in house provided components
all the ' other stuff ' is just bolt on and of secondary consideration at best.No Point in wasteing money There at this stage.

Thats for all the ' update ' spec stuff . Hi-Po , not the dreary porridge with the advertiseing bling.

3/, The ' reason D' ter ' or however you pronunciate it . :D :p :shock:

The POWERPLANT & FRAME .(chassis ? well , all the bolt ons are ' chassis ' too. )

This one would get the high spec tubeing FRAME , and High Q.C. machined cases / crankshaft , and ' a few ' other bits .
So running the sucker on 80% Nitro or Supercharged to two atmosheres ISNT going to get a electrical problem *
( * conrod through wireing loom or cranshaft vacateing the cases .)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so there you are . :roll:
The Olde Rotary in the First Oil Tube like chassis , would have been comercially viable TO ESTABLISH VOLUME PRODUCTION
profitability , rather than bleeding a sponsor dry .
At That Time , mostly buil;t in house on existing plant to control costing
The contraption would have had the performace to match any ( 132 mph a M.I.R.A.)
but was largely a confidance / resources abstact decision,

Would Still Be a Viable Motorcycle, useing sequential Fuel Injection and Ex. Extraction COOLING ( bar the noise levels ?? * )
* Astons ' exhaust bypass valve complies with regulations ! :lol: 8) )

Anothe prime consideration ' 40 yr old design ' . !? 40 years of development & Refinement !? pessimist / optomist

I prefer the optmiseation.

The second option would be the worlds biggest balls out High Power Twin Cylinder ( a parrallel V-Twin Britten ) De Tuned for ROAD USE . ( as per Above Considerations. )

---------------------------------------------------
Now , The Establishment had been whineing for years that we needed a ' New Vincent '.When we got it , I never saw the comparison , ONCE . What the h.ll else was the Britten. But , In '"Black Lightning " Spec . GET THE DRIFT .

The ' establishment ' had been Whineing in the Norton Cosworth erea , that they shouldve been doing a ' V Twin ' .

Oh Dear . They COULDVE bought the BRITTEN manufacturing Rights .

Id still go for the Canadian 4 Valve Parrallel Twin ,pre-unit (without the pre war bearer spaceing) and a ' good ole ' chassis ,
bar a set of GIRDERS , A frame mounted , forward .
Hossak and Britten wernt quite there , there . Theyed copied the Aerial Arrow . The Stressing continuity is highly dubious in the interupted load members. And it'd look better with the sides running right up from the axles. Girders the raceing trick was to tape across the shafs , incedently.They were less erratic than the obsolete telescpopics that have had 60 years of development :p :p
 
The second option would be the worlds biggest balls out High Power Twin Cylinder ( a parrallel V-Twin Britten ) De Tuned for ROAD USE . ( as per Above Considerations. )

Matt in everyone's heart of hearts that's what we all want before we croak. Its the natural extension of us hard peddling a bicycle to get spokes playing cards roaring!
I've ordered one up for myself, but the factory is scattered world wide and the labor force is lazy and poorly trained, but its in the works and rolls around,
on flats.

If say Jay Leno would request investors to reproduce most of a real deal Britten, half the biker world would go into deep debt to have it.
But for me who'd want to play cowboys and indians with em.
 
Mr Bean said:
We have the Triumph Rocket three, the next new model will be the "Triumph Commando" :shock:

Triumph already have the Triumph Thunderbird, a 1600cc parallel twin.

Probably designing a Norton badge for it as we write.
Early ones will probably be a decal.... ??
 
hobot said:
Interesting..................I live in the UK and never knew our mining and manufacturing industries were destroyed by "Marxist labor union experiments"! Personally I always thought they had gone down the pan for exactly the same reason as a lot of US manufacturing and production based industries.............the greed of capitalists who are able to increase profits by moving their operations outside of the US!

Well dear anonymous Carbon-fiber if you don't want to be embarrassed on my blunt statements you'd better back up and read deeper history on who financed and had control of basic mining - coal to metal ores and major foundries, where some the first Marxist experiments done. You are using generalized mental fogging term with 'capitolists' but you are correct they are in same clan and gang as the British bunch, too often being one and the same. You are a sharper mental tack than me, I like that as helps sharpen me up bantering with ya, but you ain't got the right data yet to compute as well as I on this subject. To really get a handle on this deep shit can take years of study to break mental programing of only reading headlines and text book, it sure did me and still hurts me at lost and faith in good world view.

Here's a brief headline level over view of the Marxist/socialist start to get ya pause before blurting out un-supported counter points. Play fair and one of us may learn something shocking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ational.29
The International Workingmen's Association (IWA), also known as the First International, was founded in London in 1864. Victor Le Lubez, a French radical republican living in London, invited Karl Marx to come to London as a representative of German workers.[25]

The Rothschild banking dynasty has been in [City of] London for 200 years, in which time its eponymous bank, NM Rothschild, has been at the heart of Britain’s economic life.
Throughout the rest of the 19th century, NM Rothschild established its pre-eminence, helping Britain buy a controlling stake in the Suez Canal, funding Cecil Rhodes’ British South Africa Company, and buying up large holdings in future giants such as mining company Rio Tinto and diamond miner De Beers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Copper

Meriden was not the only workers’ co-operative created during the period. Keith Bradley has argued that they all became an important laboratory for
the ‘feasibility of worker control strategies that focus on workers gaining
managerial prerogatives.’23 Meriden workers did not consider themselves
exemplars or pioneers.
Treatise on NVT financial conditions
http://www.labour-history.org.uk/suppor ... riden1.PDF
http://www.labour-history.org.uk/suppor ... riden2.PDF

Trestise on bigger schemes with NVT at front and center.
Lost my files on this 3 yr ago, so plain ya didn't have to read between the lines like this long winded detailed referenced review.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... 8w&cad=rja
... the Labour Left's uncrowned king, Mr Benn, took his plans for financing the sitting-in workers' project at Meriden a stage further. They are to get some (five million pounds) from the ample purse that he controls ... Apart from the fact that such schemes seem in a general way an abuse of taxpayers' money, there are two grave, particular objections to them. One is that they must act as an encouragement to workers to think that unauthorised occupation of premises ... is a sure ticket for Mr Benn's cornucopia. The other is that ... Mr Benn has acted against the advice of the Industrial Development Advisory Board ... For Mr Benn no doubt Socialist ideology overrides such considerations. It must be noted, however, that his ability to do those things without going to Parliament is derived from the last Conservative Governments' Industry Act. (27 July 1974)

One wonders if unquestioning belief in propaganda generated by establishment interests related to blaming unions for the decimation of British manufacturing industry, is the same sort of thing that allowed UK/US attacks on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq to go ahead, which have cost hundreds of thousands of lives, cost the US some $2.4 trillion, and brought no tangible benefits whatever to anyone but the ultra rich who pull the puppets strings?
 
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