Govt. Bailout, Norton Style

ZFD said:

Manufacturing industry in the UK is now pretty much finished due to this, with most production now being carried out in the Far East or former Soviet country's.

Click to expand...

That I wonder about. Whilst the big numbers may suggest that, you must remember they are influenced by the money London banks used to push into, around, and out of the British isles. You may be surprised to hear the machine shops and foundries working for Andover Norton, mainly in the Birmingham area, are working flat out, investing in new machinery, staff, and premises lately. The sectors that are down are the "service industry", but those who can manufacture things have no problems.
When the American way was all the rage a few years ago and some business advisor wisecracks recommended the running down of classic manufacturing and, instead, building up the "service industries just like they do in America" a German politician wisely (!) said "we can't live of cutting each other's hair!".
You may think all manufacture happens in the Far East these days, but there are regions in Europe that contradict that, the Engish Midlands and Germany to name but two. Genuine Norton Factory Parts are still mostly Made in England, with a bit of German and Italian manufacture thrown in.

Click to expand...

Small scale manufacturing is certainly alive and well here in the UK.......... mainly as it is not likely to be affected by the type of constraints which mean we no longer have any large scale manufacturing here! It makes a lot of sense to carry out small scale manufacture here in the UK, and the advantages of this outweigh the disadvantages as long as numbers of units required is relatively small, and cost is not a major issue.

However to remain commercially viable any large scale manufacturer located in regions such as the UK or US, will need to source most parts from outside of those regions. Good examples of this are Triumph and HD, both of whom are building motorcycles using mainly Far Eastern made parts, which are essentially only assembled in the UK and US, and clearly not manufactured in either location.

Rohan said:

Mr Bean said:

We have the Triumph Rocket three, the next new model will be the "Triumph Commando" :shock:

Click to expand...

Triumph already have the Triumph Thunderbird, a 1600cc parallel twin.

Probably designing a Norton badge for it as we write.
Early ones will probably be a decal.... ??

Click to expand...

There are precedents for multiple brands coming out of the same factory. They can mix the DNA but not the brand recognition. And they never, ever screw with the logos. That's what Bloor would be buying. The cardinal rule seems to be that the brands don't step on each others' toes. Triumph has retro bikes, but no performance retro bike. They have performance bikes but nothing like the F1. It probably won't happen. But if it did happen under the Bloor Method then it would be around 5 years before you saw the bikes. Recessions don't last forever

Carbonfibre said:

I think the early Triumph triples probably owed more to Suzuki than Kawsaki (albeit with one cylinder removed!), and supposedly some Suzuki parts will actually fit the Triumph motors?

Click to expand...

Many people who state that, have never seen internal bits cast with Triumph logos on them. Even some of the OLD (Meriden) logos!

Maybe a clutch PLATE will fit, but not the BASKET. Maybe a rod BOLT will work, but not the ROD; etc...

rpatton said:

Capitalistic 'greed' would be one way to describe 'return on investment'. Which is something everyone wants, and that includes all the managers of pension funds and even the widows and orphans funds. No one running a company, no matter what size, is in business to provide jobs.

Click to expand...

The NERVE of some people to bring LOGIC into arguments where emotions are the weapon of choice.

Carbonfibre said:

Interesting..................I live in the UK and never knew our mining and manufacturing industries were destroyed by "Marxist labor union experiments"! Personally I always thought they had gone down the pan for exactly the same reason as a lot of US manufacturing and production based industries.............the greed of capitalists who are able to increase profits by moving their operations outside of the US!

Click to expand...

More U.S. industries move abroad to escape unconstitutional behavior by the government than for any other reason.

Worst example: the U.S. tax system.

Return to a level of government we had 100 years ago, and you'd see the rapid growth and advancement we had 100 years ago. Any challenge to this logic is futile, history is our teacher.

The US tax system where the less well off subsidise the ultra rich seems pretty much the same as that of any other of the G7 nations! Tax is easily avoided though, so its not really a valid reason for decimation of most of US manufacturing industry and 23 million people without jobs.

Carbonfibre said:

The US tax system where the less well off subsidise the ultra rich seems pretty much the same as that of any other of the G7 nations! Tax is easily avoided though, so its not really a valid reason for decimation of most of US manufacturing industry and 23 million people without jobs.

Click to expand...

Zero logic when analyzed in detail.

top 1% pay nearly 40% of taxes. Disputing facts is idiocy.

A certain amount of taxes ARE avoided (legally and otherwise), yet the fact remains, the higher earners subsidise the lower earners; there can be no inverse, logically.

It makes no difference whether the taxes are imposed on the rich or the poor. The people who end up paying the taxes are the working class. Jim

Carbonfibre said:

The US tax system where the less well off subsidise the ultra rich seems pretty much the same as that of any other of the G7 nations! Tax is easily avoided though, so its not really a valid reason for decimation of most of US manufacturing industry and 23 million people without jobs.

Click to expand...

You actually believe this garbage, or are you just trying to spin people up? In a country where half of the population does not pay taxes and has decided they are all owed something is ridiculous. I am not in a position to speak of what ever happened to the might of British Industry, but I know first hand that you can no longer get people to go into the trades here because you don't get paid 75k and get a corner office. Our entire education system is nothing but a money grubbing joke.

The sheer volume of "feel good" regulations imposed on my company by the state are enough to make me wonder why anyone would come up here to start anything. Government and bureaucracy are the enemy, yet they can never see what in the hell they are actually doing. I pay a stoooopid amount of taxes to live in NY state because my "wealth" has to be transferred down to NYC to subsidize those who can't / won't do a damn thing, yet our bridges are in a state of collapse at any time, roads are impassable, and my kids educations are a joke. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination - I can barely afford to keep my poor Commando on the road. The "poor" over here have a house, car, cable tv, etc...

I stand corrected...............I guess all the various US companies who for many years have dodged taxes must now have given these practices up, and there is now no need to impose far higher indirect taxation on the poor by massive cuts in public spending? Thats good to hear, and hopefully UK tax dodgers will be following this good example very soon!

What a waste of time.

Oh good, a nasty political rant. Usually these things don't show up until the dead of winter (Northern Hemisphere), when we can't get out and ride. Get out and ride!

Wow! evolution...Nortons to US tax dodgers, at this pace we will be soon talkin who shot JFK! By the way did you Know JF was about to buy a Norton ,and Lee Harve was working for HD..."was he really"? ...yes ,,,,,,",So i heard in a Bar some-where" Bleedin Heck! wait tell this gets out!!!!

yep, forum trolls will take us from light to dark in no time flat.

JD

john robert bould said:

Wow! evolution...Nortons to US tax dodgers, at this pace we will be soon talkin who shot JFK! By the way did you Know JF was about to buy a Norton ,and Lee Harve was working for HD..."was he really"? ...yes ,,,,,,",So i heard in a Bar some-where" Bleedin Heck! wait tell this gets out!!!!

Click to expand...

The sad thing on digging into various bailouts to bankruptcy is finding the few groups that Always make out no matter who else it grinds up. All G-7 nations are under essentially the same IRS as in United States Puerto Rico, since it was found un-constitutional to have jurisdiction in the Untied States of America. US is not same as USA, but no one in the Federal Gov't or quasi Gov't IRS will volunteer that and conceal it in their "code" until you take time to read the definitions they use for US and STATEs. Reagan's 1984 Grace Commission to investigate where IRS taxes go to found, it all goes to pay off private interest from the Federal Reserve and not a nickle goes to the infra structures or service the Federal Gov't provides to people. So Carbon is correct is goes to those who need it the least from those who need it the most.

Anywho, Internaltional Banksters and Industrialist have a hidden hand in most economic cycles that favor one region over another that can make or break a company or industry. What would of happened if Norton could trickled
along in cycle production like Harley has. NVT is still around making various
stuff usually aviation related. Heck Harley made jet engines for drones too, maybe still does.

I would have like to see Andover and Norton have a close connection where they help ramp each other up and increase availability of our beloved spares and complete late 70s spec bikes, plus assist the phase-in of the new Commando.

Alas, Bloor set a precedent by burning all bridges to the old Meriden/Umberslade Triumph marque, right down to the logo; a mistake, in my opinion.

DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS: The above sentence illustrates a system that has worked well for a certain American v-twin potato peeler...

I can only speak as an American and I only know what I read about Europe. Having a system where one man plays God is absolutely the best way, but we have had kings and queens but only a few who were any better than a representative democracy, most were much much worse. The selection system is faulty among other things such as greed. The common man winds up with a Trabant.

It's not our system that's at fault. We turned our political system into a popularity contest and wound up with politicians and leeches instead of statesmen and leaders.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

Mike

Naw, it just that the real American people/united State of America got conquered, first in 1812-14 but Jackson won it back, then Lincoln's War conquered it for good and we've been under War Emergency Powers ever since, plus Federal bankrupcy in '33, so nothing is really like they teach in schools, legal, money or voting systems. By applying what I've learned directly from above is only way I can afford parts while hardly working. When the factual state of big picture ever sinks in, its depressing to sickening state the rest of your life, so can't recommend the process unless current picture ain't working for ya. After Patriot II Act bank wanted to close my account w/o a SSN/TIN, so send em W8BEN and still checking. Few years later my STATE OF Licensing Board tried to with hold my 1' care lic. w/o responding to my inquiry till in jepordy of charges practicing w/o, which they take very serious zero tolerance, till I send em my W8BEN and then called to check up and told Oh my it must of been lost in folder, why here it is and will send out, which they did. Though not exactly cycle related this funny business of jurisdiction and tax tricks tracks right back to benefactors of above wars and City of London messing with whole nations and world. London Museum once had on display two of the big checks signed by Rothschild to Karl Marx to support him during his tutoring and publishing phase.

http://www.famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/F ... endeds.pdf
http://sedm.org/Forms/Tax/Withholding/W ... W-8BEN.htm
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw8/index.html

I think I should have posted about religion, might have gotten fewer responses. :mrgreen:

Rhubarb religion rhubarb...