Govt. Bailout, Norton Style

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ZFD said:
Back to the main theme- MCN claims this week the bailout, which according to them isn't one, is to the tune of 7.5 million Pounds. A journalist friend called the relevant UK govt press office and they say the underwritten loan is 625 grand and 'absolutely not' £7.5m. They are very vague about how they check companies for creditworthiness- a valid point. Mr.Garners other companies Europlay Trading alias "Klever Kids" (Norton prams) and Fireworks International are in the hands of the receivers as of the 2nd this month. See: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/ ... ages/14727
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Apparentley according to the article Norton can vave £625,000 each month when they are repaying the loan hence the total of 7.5 million in a year.
Must be quiet in Hungerford as Mr Andover Norton doesn't seem to have anything better to do than to keep bashing Mr Garners company. Anyone would think there is a bit of bad feeling there.
 
snakehips said:
ZFD said:
Back to the main theme- MCN claims this week the bailout, which according to them isn't one, is to the tune of 7.5 million Pounds. A journalist friend called the relevant UK govt press office and they say the underwritten loan is 625 grand and 'absolutely not' £7.5m. They are very vague about how they check companies for creditworthiness- a valid point. Mr.Garners other companies Europlay Trading alias "Klever Kids" (Norton prams) and Fireworks International are in the hands of the receivers as of the 2nd this month. See: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/ ... ages/14727
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Apparentley according to the article Norton can vave £625,000 each month when they are repaying the loan hence the total of 7.5 million in a year.
Must be quiet in Hungerford as Mr Andover Norton doesn't seem to have anything better to do than to keep bashing Mr Garners company. Anyone would think there is a bit of bad feeling there.
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Your reading comprehension is better than mine. :cry:

Good stuff.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. I did say this was in MCN. How they make 7.5 million out of 625k is admirable. Not a lot to do with reality, though.

Sorry if I saw myself as just another interested Norton enthusiast, and as such gave my opinion and passed on information that came my way, just as Hobot on this thread gave his view of the world. Will try to censor my thoughts henceforth.

Nothing to do? Probably never too much to answer to a customer, and to listen to his/her problems and to try to solve them. But I probably work more hours of the week than most contributors to this forum.
 
A quote off BI list by Doug McQuire a long and close nieghbor of Kenny Dreer.
In the recent "Classic Bike" magazine was a mixed message one page article about Norton.

Apparently they are announcing plans for new race bikes and a V4 for the 2012 season,,big announcements and some positive press,

But in the same article they talk about the ongoing problems and some very unhappy customers of the current Norton street bikes, Some customers asking for return of deposts after 2 years waiting, some paid the full price up front and asked for refunds, Some refunds were slow to come, some payments not returned at all.

the article notes Norton wont return calls seeking comment for the story but an anonymous call to Norton sales has them urging buyers to send in the full monty of cash to be assured quick delivery.

Hmmmmm, hope this isnt what it looks like
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From rider builder Doug McQuire again today...
you are right Dave, and it is too soon to tell about the new Indians, but my humble opinion is that market reaction to Indian is tepid at best, most people are "Yeah, heard that song and dance before"

Kenny Dreer did 2 seminars on this topic as well as his experience on his period reviving Norton at the Car and MC museum, it was illuminating, the money mechanics and the politics and personalitys, But one thing really strikes me about then and now, Kenny related how near the end it was clear the bikes were never going to be built, and it was arranging the desk chairs on the Titanic. But the Lawyers and corporate people involved were demanding Kenny go back to those who put a deposit down on a new Norton America bike and ask the buyers to double or triple their deposits knowing full well no bikes were to be built.

The very first person to put money down was David Edwards, Editor of cycle world magazine, Kenny told the crowd at the museum can you imagine the fall out when people realize they were ripped off and the press we would get? Kenny said he went back to his office and sent out refunds to all the buyers and quit Norton, and of course how mad the lawyers were.
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The difference here being that the New Norton are making an honest attempt to deliver new bikes to customers - there are quite a few reports of happy punters. Although its difficult to judge just how many.

How many recall the recent start-up attempt of Excelsior Henderson ? Took money off all the stockholders, spent like no-ones business, lotsa publicity, made a few bikes ( quirky styling), spectacular bankruptcy. Still new bikes kicking around unsold, if you search a bit. Anyone thinks the values go up because of rarity should check the current prices of those things.....
 
hobot said:
in the end looks like its up to us to keep the ole flame going
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You're dead right there Steve. Just as it has always been. I'm just a bit player, but small business people like Joe, Mick Hemmings, Matt at CNW etc, etc, have all played a crucial part in keeping our Nortons alive and well. If it's true that Garner's other companies are going into receivership, then it looks like curtains for this reincarnation. Sad. I would love to have seen his business flourish and seen new Nortons on the road where they belong. It might be like Hesketh, where a true blue believer buys what's left and keeps the new breed going with spares, servicing and upgrades, but time will tell.

In truth, there isn't a new bike on the market anywhere that I would lay down cash for, but the new Commando would have been the closest. Except for a Ural outfit of course. Call me kinky.

I'm going for a ride on my beautiful 850 Commando while the sun is shining. Rain tomorrow.
 
Personally I think Norton should of evolved like Harley with new jeans like Comstock and Maney and Schmidt have injected yet that still retains the basic body plan. Here's a sense of what I meant in only halfway spoofing evolution of my Combat...
140 mph+, easy ton cruise and any doubts about handling take it up with the flat trackers please. Only a mutant Ms Peel could show her its tail in gleeful pecking order of survival of the fittest...

Govt. Bailout, Norton Style
 
Garners other concerns are bankrupt!.............Personally I would be rather worried if I had paid £16k up front for a bike, and had little chance of getting the bike or the money back.
 
When I had a 961 on order and then paid in full as I had been given a build date, I was also very concerned after reading all the stories of the company folding etc on this and other forum's. That was around November 2010, I called the Norton and was invited to the factory to have a look around and see my bike which was complete less engine. In the reception area they have one of the original Dreer bikes,Chris Walker was very helpful and I was impressed with their set up and the huge stock of parts on site, suspension, frames, wheels etc. I was kept informed of progress at all times and my bike a 961 sport was delivered the first week in March, so far I have covered just over 3,000 miles. The bike is superb as is the support from the factory, they collected the bike for the first service and returned it two days later and the cost was around the price I paid for a 1st service on my Honda Fireblade. I hope that the company will grow and succeed, I have no intention of selling my 961 although I have noticed a few for sale with virtually no miles at inflated prices.
 
Well they might not be on the road in Aus or the US but sure are in England, 3 at the local classic bike meeting the other night, all with very happy owners. If I had paid 13k and was waiting then I would be a tad anxious but all this talk about them being dead and buried is just that, uninformed chatter.

In fact unless you are somebody who has put their money down then why are you bothered, I have nothing but admiration for Stuart Garner and his energy in getting the production up and running, and lets not get all misty eyed about Kenny's efforts, he designed a great concept but it was a million miles away from being production ready.
 
Just wondering if these New 13k Nortons will push the original Commando values up.Modern Copy....or the real Macoy?
I still see the Ebay £30,000 one is still up for sale. strange no taker's :roll:
 
Just checked on ebay and there's 2, both SEs, one at £13,700 another at £17k or thereabouts, at least with those no waiting list so if you were desperate? To answer your question what happenede to Bonneville values once the new one came out. I think one thing is clear, whether the New Nortons survive or not I reckon they will be a good investment, even more so if the doomsayers are correct.
 
spelky said:
...and lets not get all misty eyed about Kenny's efforts, he designed a great concept but it was a million miles away from being production ready.
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This type of comment crops up from time to time; it's mostly untrue. Nobody is misty-eyed, and anyone who knows the facts will agree that the blood, sweat, and tears were all in the U.S.

Garner slipped in at the golden hour with his checkbook and his only trouble is he underestimated how much money it takes to get over the actual production hump; a fact which Kenny & his backers found just a few million dollarsd too late. Credit Kenny also with doing the right thing and returning ALL the deposits.
 
I think you will find there's plenty of b/s and tears here as well, setting up a production facility anywhere outside China or India is not for the faint hearted. I am sure Kenny is a very honourable man and yes did the right thing by his depositors as he should have done. You infer though by that comment that if things go wrong then Stuart Garner wouldn't do the same, that's pure speculation and more of the character assassination that is a theme running through this thread.
 
Very pleasing to hear they are being delivered and real riders like em for the price. Anything that keeps Norton name in media and public mind is a boone to our ole hags and likely entice some 961 owner to add an ancient one to their stable, if not just the other way around. Its as sexy as any new production can be, yet we know how looks alone can get us into mean divorces later, so holding breath is works out in the long run. Kenny got the profile right to my eyes, where the open spaces should land and where the bulk pleases the power packing look. The booga boo is long term parts availability, but if a few 1000 get going and business fails d/t the global economy if nothing else, likely cottage industry will appear to support them. Wonder how much they can be hot rodded?

Articles make special note how everything is sourced/made in UK so its the real deal as it gets in national loyalty. That is amazing in its self.
 
There is plenty of BS posted here regards the new Norton company, but worth having a look at these posts on a UK consumer group forum for an accurate idea of how Norton does business: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... es-warning

These posts seem to support the piece in "Classic Bike" magazine recently, which expressed concern about poor treatment of customers, who had paid full money up front.
 
spelky said:
... You infer though by that comment that if things go wrong then Stuart Garner wouldn't do the same, that's pure speculation and more of the character assassination that is a theme running through this thread.
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I implied no such thing, nor do I believe Garner wouldn't do the right thing. As you are new here, I'll forgive you for thinking I'm "down" on the man; I'm not.
 
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