Gear change Grrrrrrrrrremlins!!

Fast Eddie

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That’s a good point. If it fails as the rider is accelerating in heavy traffic, over taking, changing lanes, etc. there could definitely be safety implications.

And a dangling gearchange lever and rod can‘t be too helpful either...
 

Stephen_Spencer

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What is that saying about lightening, you know, striking twice! When my first gear change actuating rod failed, the replacement received under warranty was the wrong configuration. It was longer and it’s curve much less acute than the failed component. As such, the rod contacted the underside of the primary case before the gear selector arm had rotated sufficiently to engage first gear. Did’nt matter how the rod was adjusted. The dealer sent it back to Norton for investigation and stole one off a bike in the dealership to get me back on the road.

Yes, you guessed it, my second replacement is of the same incorrect configuration - received a few days ago. What are the chances I hear you say? Must admit that I have started to doubt myself but this is a pretty simple mechanical proposition right, it either fits and enables gear selection or it does’nt. And it does’nt! See pics below for a good laugh at my expense (I really don’t mind) or to offer those pearls of wisdom that so often get we technically challenged members out of the poop!

Am I going nuts, or is it too late - I’m already there! Wibble!o_O

DA6249D8-9CAA-4C79-A61E-9E2D46CCB0DD.jpeg
E79696A7-AD59-4D77-97A3-94E83151D387.jpeg
C2DA5FF3-F088-4085-B57C-B11F21570E57.jpeg
 
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Fast Eddie

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Seems to me they’ve sent your old returned one back to you. So not really lightning striking twice more like seeing the same lightning twice !

How about if you move the gear selector arm clockwise one spline? Might solve the length and the angle issue? Might help alleviate the weak acute angle too?
 
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Your gear change lever needs to point straight down at rest . I am wondering now if your gear change mechanism is centered inside the primary cover ? It's looking more and more like this is your problem . Look at the Coote's manual to see what I mean. In Another thread about false neutrals the member talks about checking the centering . Look at my bike photo attached below , I don't have or need the large bend in my bike. It may be easier then to bend the rod slightly to match the original . Otherwise take off the primary cover and center the shift mechanism . Read the manual before starting .

https://www.accessnorton.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.vgy.me%2FNCv5h7.jpg&hash=998747dce0b529dbaa1b68421edd77b2
 
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What is that saying about lightening, you know, striking twice! When my first gear change actuating rod failed, the replacement received under warranty was the wrong configuration. It was longer and it’s curve much less acute than the failed component. As such, the rod contacted the underside of the primary case before the gear selector arm had rotated sufficiently to engage first gear. Did’nt matter how the rod was adjusted. The dealer sent it back to Norton for investigation and stole one off a bike in the dealership to get me back on the road.

Yes, you guessed it, my second replacement is of the same incorrect configuration - received a few days ago. What are the chances I hear you say? Must admit that I have started to doubt myself but this is a pretty simple mechanical proposition right, it either fits and enables gear selection or it does’nt. And it does’nt! See pics below for a good laugh at my expense (I really don’t mind) or to offer those pearls of wisdom that so often get we technically challenged members out of the poop!

Am I going nuts, or is it too late - I’m already there! Wibble!o_O

View attachment 19751View attachment 19752View attachment 19753


Your gear change lever needs to point straight down at rest . I am wondering now if your gear change mechanism is centered inside the primary cover ? It's looking more and more like this is your problem . Look at the Coote's manual to see what I mean. In Another thread about false neutrals the member talks about checking the centering . Look at my bike photo attached below , I don't have or need the large bend in my bike. It may be easier then to bend the rod slightly to match the original . Otherwise take off the primary cover and center the shift mechanism . Read the manual before starting .

https://www.accessnorton.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.vgy.me%2FNCv5h7.jpg&hash=998747dce0b529dbaa1b68421edd77b2
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Hi FE - had to laugh at that. You can imagine Norton receiving the faulty component back, taking a (very) quick look and throwing it back into stock on top of the pile. Not too much of a stretch that I got it back! Advancing the gear selector arm one tooth, after marking it of course, was my first action. Bike went through the gears (on stands) nicely, 1,2,3 until 4th, which could not be selected as the selector arm contacted the rear of the primary cover as shown.
4E4C795B-6578-48D3-9821-BBB4C04A8AA9.jpeg
As Tony has noted the selector arm needs to be angled directly down at rest. Mine appears to be so, as can be seen in comparison to Richard’s bike in his manual on primary cover removal.
1F79A58B-63B4-47EC-A325-B0FAB2E6854F.jpeg
78E40DB5-1FE9-427A-9C94-A931E2D0A15F.jpeg

Centering of the gear change mechanism would have impact of course if it was out of adjustment but, the selector arm appears correctly aligned. I have had two rods now with the more acute curve that operate the gears correctly (one original on purchase of bike, the other from a Mk2 in the showroom). I’ve also had two replacements of significantly different configuration that do not function with a previously working gear change mechanism. Go figure. More than one pattern? Bike model variations? Different manufacturers? Poor quality control? Who knows.

Having a little trouble with Richards site at the moment Tony- regional address error. Can you advise which of the manuals covers the centering of the gear change mechanism? There are several related to the gearbox.

Thanks guys, just gonna keep chipping away until I resolve this pretty basic problem. I’ll finish the sleeved rod and ask Norton to provide another rod to see what we get. My guess is a third configuration - it is hand built after all. :)

Long live Norton.
 
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OK , Your mechanism which includes the splined shaft appears to be (not in the middle of its range) . When you adjust this , you will be rotating the mechanism which includes the splined shaft ! Please read this carefully because I think this is your problem and why your shifting rod needs more bend . Look at my bike in the attachment.
Hi FE - had to laugh at that. You can imagine Norton receiving the faulty component back, taking a (very) quick look and throwing it back into stock on top of the pile. Not too much of a stretch that I got it back! Advancing the gear selector arm one tooth, after marking it of course, was my first action. Bike went through the gears (on stands) nicely, 1,2,3 until 4th, which could not be selected as the selector arm contacted the rear of the primary cover as shown.
View attachment 19769As Tony has noted the selector arm needs to be angled directly down at rest. Mine appears to be so, as can be seen in comparison to Richard’s bike in his manual on primary cover removal.
View attachment 19770View attachment 19771
Centering of the gear change mechanism would have impact of course if it was out of adjustment but, the selector arm appears correctly aligned. I have had two rods now with the more acute curve that operate the gears correctly (one original on purchase of bike, the other from a Mk2 in the showroom). I’ve also had two replacements of significantly different configuration that do not function with a previously working gear change mechanism. Go figure. More than one pattern? Bike model variations? Different manufacturers? Poor quality control? Who knows.

Having a little trouble with Richards site at the moment Tony- regional address error. Can you advise which of the manuals covers the centering of the gear change mechanism? There are several related to the gearbox.

Thanks guys, just gonna keep chipping away until I resolve this pretty basic problem. I’ll finish the sleeved rod and ask Norton to provide another rod to see what we get. My guess is a third configuration - it is hand built after all. :)
Here are the manuals from Coote's :





Long live Norton.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Thanks Tony, appreciate your assistanceas as ever.

Maybe we are getting closer to the reason for the different pattern rods. The adjustment of the gear selector mechanism seems pretty straight forward although does’nt appear very definitive - measure rotational movement CW and CCW and then estimate the middle position. With the hand built nature of the bike, maybe when the builder reaches assembly of the external gear change mechanism if the full range of gears cannot be achieved the alternate ‘wider clearance‘ rod is fitted? Who knows!

I see that on your bIke the gear selector arm is slightly more central (vertical) however I have also found plenty of pictures where it is slightly offset toward the rear of the bike and that include the wider clearance rod. Maybe we are just looking at poor quality control.

E9547417-77EB-4F53-9B90-6D56619F2DA9.jpeg


For now I am going to take the path of least resistance and complete my fix. Gearbox was ‘sweet as a nut‘ before rod failure. Spoke to a specialist welder today. He said he could weld the sleeve but the weld would almost certainly crack. He recommended pinning it and sent me to a local machinist who said no thanks, don’t do one off repairs - he said he would’nt weld it either cos it would crack and he would’nt pin it. He recommended ............... drum roll............!

71ECD9A9-26A5-47F7-8967-6E64A53DC263.jpeg

Now who suggested that at the start!? :)
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Heavy boots
Heavy boots? Piddly 6mm thread operated at an irregular angle? Incorrectly adjusted gear selector mechanism? Lock nuts acting on a weak thread? Overtightened? Different pattern rods with acute curve? Poor quality control? Etc etc. Or, a combination of the above? They are failing though and no doubt many more will - it will ruin your ride and/or strand you if it occurs. Not to mention safety implications. Not (if at all) just heavy boots Britfan IMO. Ignore it at your peril mate! Difficult to prove a negative of course. :)
 
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Lighten up, Stephen. It was a tongue in cheek reply. That said, I do see gents wearing these huge Doc Martins. Also, that problem has been mentioned a few times but the minority. Got 13K on mine. Now its going to break. Thanks for jinxing me.o_O;) By the way.....What kind of boots do you wear?
 
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Stephen_Spencer

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Lighten up, Stephen. It was a tongue in cheek reply. That said, I do see gents wearing these huge Doc Martins. Also, that problem has been mentioned a few times but the minority. Got 13K on mine. Now its going to break. Thanks for jinxing me.o_O;) By the way.....What kind of boots do you wear?
Oh,............... you may be right after all:oops:!

3C1B6729-6A3E-4F57-95FF-89BA4AD943B7.png
 
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Oh,............... you may be right after all:oops:!

View attachment 19815
Just been checking mine out and it looks good but 2 things strike me, bend on mine looks shallow, later issue? But why 2 locknuts at the front end. 2 nuts horsed together, resultant stress on the thread etc. etc. Ive backed the 2nd one off, hopefully, with my heavy left foot, old injury, it'll be reet.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Just been checking mine out and it looks good but 2 things strike me, bend on mine looks shallow, later issue? But why 2 locknuts at the front end. 2 nuts horsed together, resultant stress on the thread etc. etc. Ive backed the 2nd one off, hopefully, with my heavy left foot, old injury, it'll be reet.
Hey Al, have a good read of this thread. Your points are valid and discussed. Getting to be a lengthy thread for a rather simple failure I admit. That’s another thing I like about this forum - problems are put into an arm lock and wrestled to the ground until they submit! :)

There are two distinct patterns, both which have (approx) equal effective length. The one you have fitted has a shallow bar with a straighter pull; as such is less likely to fail we think. The shallow bar may not fit some bikes due to insufficient clearance with the primary case to enable first gear to be selected. As identified by Tony, this is likely because these bikes do not have the gear selector mechanism (within the primary case) set to the centre of its adjustment.

The second rod has a much deeper curve and easilly clears the primary case. This likely allows full gear selection if the gear selector mechanism is not set to the centre of its adjustment and appears more likely to fail - @ forward threaded section. 2016 (Rick’s Mick Grant Special) is the most current bike I’ve seen with this rod fitted.
 
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