gear change roller

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seattle##gs

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According to the latest AN newsletter there is improvement to be had by replacing the usual gearchange roller with the MK3 version 06-5150, a ball shaped roller.
Has anyone tried this?
 
seattle##gs said:
According to the latest AN newsletter there is improvement to be had by replacing the usual gearchange roller with the MK3 version 06-5150, a ball shaped roller.
Has anyone tried this?
Click to expand...
Seattle,
I just read the same article and from what I can gather they are using it on all their rebuilds.
Mike
 
Well, being spherical, instead of it's cylindrical predecessor, it would better accommodate variables @seattle##gs has mentioned in his thread, so probably a good thing.
If I was rebuilding a box, that would be what I'd use.
 
The original roller is cylindrical. And it mates with a cylindrical bore in the quadrant. Changing the shape of the roller to that of a ball would reduce surface friction, and allow for misalignment. But you have massively reduced the bearing surface. I wonder what the wear pattern would be over time.
 
Stephen Hill said:
The original roller is cylindrical. And it mates with a cylindrical bore in the quadrant. Changing the shape of the roller to that of a ball would reduce surface friction, and allow for misalignment. But you have massively reduced the bearing surface. I wonder what the wear pattern would be over time.
Click to expand...
Well who here has a high mileage Mk3 that has inspected the gearbox after many miles? That would be the proof in the pudding. So to speak.
 
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I have two ball type rollers in my stuff. All I lack is the drive to open up my good running gearbox.
By the way...what has worked well is the addition of about 3 or 4 oz of Redline shockproof oil to the regular 90 weight oil. It helped a lot for engaging first at a stoplight.
 
Why change something when everything is working right, in 49+ years of ownership my Norton GB has always changed smoothly, have never had any problems finding first gear when stopped, clutch is normally the problem there not adjusted right, other than a blown layshaft bearing and worn KS pawls and KS gear and KS shaft broken at the pawl over 35+ years ago and its been over 20 years ago since I been in my GB I just run the recommended oil the bible recommends (workshop manual) and my Norton was an everyday rider most of its life with high mileage, when things are working well I leave well alone.
 
ashman said:
Why change something when everything is working right, in 49+ years of ownership my Norton GB has always changed smoothly, have never had any problems finding first gear when stopped, clutch is normally the problem there not adjusted right, other than a blown layshaft bearing and worn KS pawls and KS gear and KS shaft broken at the pawl over 35+ years ago and its been over 20 years ago since I been in my GB I just run the recommended oil the bible recommends (workshop manual) and my Norton was an everyday rider most of its life with high mileage, when things are working well I leave well alone.
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curiosity. The only way to tell is to install one in my own transmission. However, perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie.
 
Stephen Hill said:
The original roller is cylindrical. And it mates with a cylindrical bore in the quadrant. Changing the shape of the roller to that of a ball would reduce surface friction, and allow for misalignment. But you have massively reduced the bearing surface. I wonder what the wear pattern would be over time.
Click to expand...
Yes, but with potentially large misalignment, as the OP has pointed out, that cylinder is probably only making line-contact too.
...and given that it is only lightly loaded each gear change, probably not a biggie!
 
seattle##gs said:
curiosity. The only way to tell is to install one in my own transmission. However, perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie.
Click to expand...
Don't you realize curiosity killed the cat, when and I do say when or if the GB needs an overhaul or rebuild then try the new bearing, but if the GB is working as it should leave it well alone.
 
I got some curiosity and went out and took the outer cover of my P11 gearbox to see what all the hubbub was about. Could be the round ball can be inserted with the inner cover on. That would be cool for a guy in a hurry that forgot to install it before putting the inner cover on. Ask me how I know. Otherwise I agree with Ashley. Why bother. And if it aint broke don't fix it. Makes me a hypocrite though. I installed a 5-speed TTi gearbox cuz the AMC box and I never really got along after pulling the P11 out of moth balls. I'm a bad white hair. 👎
 
Well one good thing with the ball type is you can install it on the gear change quadrant assembly after you install the inner cover. So I am told.
you can't do that with the cylindrical knuckle roller pin. If you forget to put it in before the inner cover gets put on you are taking it off again. :rolleyes:
I just had my outer cover off and installed a atlas type CLUTCH OPERATING LEVER and a 3MM plane steel clutch plate, 13.1948 to get my stack height correct because of wear. Two finger pull.
Then I tackled my gear change ratchet spring (dog leg to the Bottom) and got it with about 4 thou clearance and it now works like a charm. I have Madass dunstall rearsets and it works great.
Before working on this spring I would occasionally get a false neutral on 2nd to 3rd if ridden with any aggression. Pay attention to this adjustment. I am still using the original knuckle roller pin with no issues.

World of a difference when set right.
I wouldn't mind testing the Mk 3 type for giggles. I am not afraid to open up a gearbox.
;)
 
CanukNortonNut said:
Well one good thing with the ball type is you can install it on the gear change quadrant assembly after you install the inner cover. So I am told.
you can't do that with the cylindrical knuckle roller pin. If you forget to put it in before the inner cover gets put on you are taking it off again. :rolleyes:
I just had my outer cover off and installed a atlas type CLUTCH OPERATING LEVER and a 3MM plane steel clutch plate, 13.1948 to get my stack height correct because of wear. Two finger pull.
Then I tackled my gear change ratchet spring (dog leg to the Bottom) and got it with about 4 thou clearance and it now works like a charm. I have Madass dunstall rearsets and it works great.
Before working on this spring I would occasionally get a false neutral on 2nd to 3rd if ridden with any aggression. Pay attention to this adjustment. I am still using the original knuckle roller pin with no issues.

World of a difference when set right.
I wouldn't mind testing the Mk 3 type for giggles. I am not afraid to open up a gearbox.
;)
Click to expand...
I use plenty of grease to hold the cylindrical pin or the ball type in place for reassembly .
How is the Atlas clutch operating lever working out ? I have a new one ready to go , but hesitated when some other forum members said don't go there ...
 
Torontonian said:
How is the Atlas clutch operating lever working out ? I have a new one ready to go , but hesitated when some other forum members said don't go there ...
Click to expand...
No complaints.
You need to shorten the clutch operating lever by grinding the tines where the cable hooks into and thru from the outer case Location or you may not have enough room in the gearbox outer cover. This being the interference point when it swings thru its ark. The atlas cable entry point is in a different location than the commando in the outer cover, due to oil tank and frame differences despite the outer looking almost the same as the Commando. Look at your Commando clutch operating lever in this location at the tines and compared to the atlas and you will see the difference. I think Dynodave said It may or may not fit without interference to the outer gearbox cover. I chose to just copy the Commando length with the arm and ground it away before fitting. DD is not here responding anymore so get in touch with him at BritBike.com Norton section (Moderator there) or PM him here. I think he still pokes in here now and again.
 
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seattle##gs said:
I tried one in a commando and while it really lightened the pull it didn't fully disengage the clutch so I didn't use it. If you've achieved good plate separation I would like to know how it was done.
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I cleaned my plates and changed a 2mm plate out to a 3mm plate (new) as my clutch pack and plates were somewhat worn. Went from 4 finger (hard) , to two finger ease as I was having a tough time feathering my clutch on launches from dead stops at intersections. Arthritis starting to creep in.
Changed the operating lever as stated above and adjusted the clutch rod adjuster to about 1/4 to 1/2 turns out from contacting the spring plate. Adjusted the clutch hand lever to about 1/8th out slack. BTW surflex clutch pack. I don't know what else to tell you other than it works on my bike. Like I advised Peter, contact Dynodave via PM.
Edit: I am using a Maney Belt drive system. If that helps. Dry Primary.
Best of luck
 

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