Café Commando build thread
- Thread starter Jeandr
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For Brit bikes being used in off road competition use of OIF is very common, but for road going machines the advantages of OIF are questionable, given that oil capacity is almost always reduced over a properly designed alloy oil tank, and in the case of old OE frames its pretty much impossible to clean out the insides of the tubes properly, so they can function as an oil container, rather than a pretty fast method of destroying a motor.
Its a lot less work to design and make a low level alloy oil tank, which can also contain the battery, and this will work far better than OIF, and can be easily cleaned out in the event of a blown motor. However for bikes that are not likely to be running at high speeds for extended periods of time, and where frame tubes can properly prepared, then OIF is certainly worth looking at.
Its a lot less work to design and make a low level alloy oil tank, which can also contain the battery, and this will work far better than OIF, and can be easily cleaned out in the event of a blown motor. However for bikes that are not likely to be running at high speeds for extended periods of time, and where frame tubes can properly prepared, then OIF is certainly worth looking at.
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grandpaul said:
Same reason that everyone else mentions. Impossible to clean the tank.
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I don't quite get the tank cleaning issue. In the ten years I have been riding my commando I have only cleaned the oil tank once. I change the oil regularly, about every 1000 miles and have never seen an adverse effect. What would be the reason one would need to clean the tank out often enough to cause so much concern? For regular street riding is the OIF really going to cause a problem? Never had a problem on my OIF triumph either.
I do not get this frenzy of oil tank cleaning... What is an oil filter if not for cleaning?
I only had my Commando tank cleaned when repaired by CNW.... I have/had few bike with OIF (Triumph, B50, XT/SR, Egli) with no prob! The only oil tanks I had to really clean were of a XLCR & XLCH as from stock oil filtration was almost non existent...
Philippe
I only had my Commando tank cleaned when repaired by CNW.... I have/had few bike with OIF (Triumph, B50, XT/SR, Egli) with no prob! The only oil tanks I had to really clean were of a XLCR & XLCH as from stock oil filtration was almost non existent...
Philippe
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Paper element oil filters remove particles bigger than around 25 microns, the gauze screen type are pretty much useless in terms of stopping anything other than shrapnel from a blown motor.
On any bike with separate oil tank its very desirable to be able to remove and properly clean out the oil tank, and this in conjunction with regular oil changes, will mean that particles smaller than 25 microns circulating in the oil can be greatly reduced.
All in all OIF is something thats likely to reduce engine life (unless the frame is new, tubing properly prepared, with oil cooler fitted), through circulating contaminated oil, and without cooler fitted, unacceptably high oil temperatures.
The awful Tri/BSA OIF bikes tended to live a lot less longer than the earlier P69 machines, and those that had suffered serious engine damage, would often suffer from further problems, as in most cases the frames were not cleaned out after blow ups.
On any bike with separate oil tank its very desirable to be able to remove and properly clean out the oil tank, and this in conjunction with regular oil changes, will mean that particles smaller than 25 microns circulating in the oil can be greatly reduced.
All in all OIF is something thats likely to reduce engine life (unless the frame is new, tubing properly prepared, with oil cooler fitted), through circulating contaminated oil, and without cooler fitted, unacceptably high oil temperatures.
The awful Tri/BSA OIF bikes tended to live a lot less longer than the earlier P69 machines, and those that had suffered serious engine damage, would often suffer from further problems, as in most cases the frames were not cleaned out after blow ups.
I suppose that the oil could always put the in the swingarm ( like Buell did ).
Then at least it could be removed from the bike if necessary.
However, cleaning the tank would only be required if you let the engine chew it guts out and pump shards through the system.
and I highly doubt that jeander would allow that to happen.
Then at least it could be removed from the bike if necessary.
However, cleaning the tank would only be required if you let the engine chew it guts out and pump shards through the system.
and I highly doubt that jeander would allow that to happen.
splatt said:
You are getting ahead of me, that is what will be done. As to all the talk about cleaning an oil tank, I have never done it on any of the bikes I ever owned. If cleaning oil tanks was so required on engines, it would be done on a regular basis on cars too, when was the last time anyone ever heard of shops offering to clean their oil pan :?: There is money to be made there yet no one has the fear of a dirty oil tank haunting their minds when they get their car serviced.
Jean
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Jeandr said:
Cleaning an oil tank is desirable on any old air cooled motorcycle, with less than perfect oil filtration system fitted. Its also something thats pretty much essential in the event of major engine failure, and in the case of the old OIF Tri/BSA bikes, the fact it was not easy to clean out the frame properly following engine problems, meant that in many cases wear would be much faster after rebuild carried out to fix initial issues.
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Oh boy, looks like a repeat of the trispark thread............ :roll:
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I'm old enough to know that old cars and trucks and tractors oil sludge stayed put until the new detergent oils came out and it hurt some the old machines because they did not clear out the oil pan so realeased clots of crud clogged screen and filters. Solution was clean up the easy to reach sediments before switching to fancy oils. There is some concern even w/o blocking oil paths detergent oil would slowly disperse the particles trapped in sluge, but generally they are too small to bother friction wear and slowly clean out deposits.
If sludge builds up enough in crank shaft it can limit flow to the rod shells, A Brit Iron motto drummed into my head was Clean The Sludge Trap. I almost ignored it to avoid hassle on only 7000 mile old crank, but still found couple tablespoons. This crank had maybe 3 tablespoons after 30K miles. Not enough to bother anything though.
If sludge builds up enough in crank shaft it can limit flow to the rod shells, A Brit Iron motto drummed into my head was Clean The Sludge Trap. I almost ignored it to avoid hassle on only 7000 mile old crank, but still found couple tablespoons. This crank had maybe 3 tablespoons after 30K miles. Not enough to bother anything though.
Closed up the holes left by the smaller frame tube going through the main spine.
This is the main spine tube opened all the wayfor easy cleaning :wink:
And this is a plate covering the big hole. I have a plumbing fitting in place, but that will change in the future to route the oil line towards the right side of the frame.
And this is the bottom of the oil tank welded in place.
That's it for now
Jean
This is the main spine tube opened all the wayfor easy cleaning :wink:
And this is a plate covering the big hole. I have a plumbing fitting in place, but that will change in the future to route the oil line towards the right side of the frame.
And this is the bottom of the oil tank welded in place.
That's it for now
Jean
Caferider said:
The bottom of the oil tank is made from thicker material (12 ga) than the big spine tube and the sides (14 ga), so I will weld attachment points to that so I can put a rose joint (like the Dave Taylor or others). I will have rose joints on the front like many have done and also rose joints in the rear like Hobot has done. If you look at what Kenny Dreer did( the-kenny-dreer-vr880-undressed-t1314.html?hilit= dreer ), you will see many similarities. One thing Kenny did was add a third ISO beneath the frame to get rid of the head steady. I think I would rather have the head steady rather than add a third ISO.
Jean
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