Brake Pads (again)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Derek Wilson said:
That is my biggest beef with the original caliper - lack of availability of high friction linings, which is why I adapted a CBR600F4 caliper to my fork leg. I run EBC HH code linings in it. The stock cast iron Norton rotor is a great match to these linings, and with a 1/2" bore master cylinder, a 1-2 finger pull will haul you down from speed with controllable authority. It is a very inexpensive set up, and requires no permanent modification, so it easily returned to stock if preferred.

The piston area of the 4-pot Nissin is about the same as the stock Norton Lockheed, but it does move the piston centerline out about 1/4-3/8" for a marginal moment arm increase. There is also enough room in the caliper to accept the stock rotor and unworn pads without any machining.

The HH friction code linings are the key to this working. If some were available for the stock caliper, the transformation would be incredible.

FWIW
Click to expand...
Can I please ask you a question about the Honda 4 pot calipers, namely are all the pistons in the caliper the same size diameter?
The reason I ask is because I don't think Honda do a smaller diameter on the leading piston causing slightly more taper on the pads than need be - not that I'm saying they don't work, I've been using some 1980s ones for years.
 
Bernhard said:
Can I please ask you a question about the Honda 4 pot calipers, namely are all the pistons in the caliper the same size diameter?
The reason I ask is because I don't think Honda do a smaller diameter on the leading piston causing slightly more taper on the pads than need be - not that I'm saying they don't work, I've been using some 1980s ones for years.
Click to expand...
My caliper has equal size pistons. It has been on there since 2003, and I have never had a problem with uneven wear.

For those that are interested - It started as an experiment in doing a minimalist brake upgrade on a equally minimalist budget. I have an early 90's 750 Ninja master cylinder connected to it. All parts came from eBay. I don't believe I have more than $40 tied up in the M/C and caliper. The adapter plate is cut from 3/8" 6061, and and required a 3/8" spacer to center it on the rotor.

Excuse the dirt....
IMG_4701.jpg
 
On my Seeley, I use a Yamaha TZ350 twin cable quick action throttle, and my front brake is extremely effective when I use only my forefinger. I keep the rest wrapped around the throttle.. If you have to change your hand position to operate the front brake, you are asking for trouble. If you are going fast, it is essential to be smooth. It is very easy to lock a front brake and crash.
I would never use three fingers to operate the front brake because everything becomes too slow. On my bike, I cannot grab a handful of front brake, one finger is quite enough. It is reliable and safe. The same applies to close ratio gearboxes, the power has to be there immediately when you need it. When I race, there are many corners which I just flick into and out of. You don't have time to muck around. Riding on public roads is more dangerous, because usually you are half asleep when an incident occurs. When you race, you are never lulled into a false sense of security.
 
I locked up my front wheel one day. It had a Metzler ribbed tyre on it. As a result, I have gone back to 410x19 TT100's on the front now. My original master cylinder which I have made and fitted a 12 mm sleeve etc, is still on the bike. I am not very big, and not very strong, probably. It has the standard brake pads they normally came out with.

How much more power do you need.
 
Alan L said:
Hi Tornado,
The problem with the wildlife around here is that they believe the best way to deal with an oncoming headlight is to stare at it.
yes, I’ve tried the practice emergency braking. You are correct, if I can get all my fingers around the lever so I can really put the pressure on it will give quite an impressive stop. I guess the same applies to any brakes, if you jump on them hard enough they will stop.
My problem is that in an emergency I’m only really getting three fingers on the lever (little finger with mild dupuytrens contracture makes it difficult without removing my hand from twist grip (a precious fraction of a second lost).
Also my fingers aren’t as far out along the lever to get the best mechanical advantage. Taking a second grab certainly gets it stopping but again, precious time wasted
Hence my interest in maximising what I’ve got, I don’t really want to put different brakes on the bike.
So it’s a case of the pads with the best coefficient of friction from cold and perhaps a better designed lever with more mechanical advantage, if anyone can suggest one.
Out of interest, with the reduced master cylinder and standard brake line I’m not getting excessive sponginess in the lever.
with thanks for people’s patience in me banging on with this hackneyed topic
Al
Click to expand...
I use the stock front brake with an RGM " racing brake lever" which substantially increases pad pressure but the master cylinder needs to be moved 11/2 to 2 inches inboard to align the end of the lever with the twist grip. Expensive at 60 pounds but on inspection, it looks expensive to make.
 
Thanks Justin,
Ive been trying to order a lever from RGM without success. Their online shopping seems to have a technical glitch (unless it’s my fault, I am a technological cretin (hence my love of Norton over Ninja ;)). It doesn’t seem to recognise Australia.
I have emailed them but haven’t received a response. Do they have an agent in Australia?
The new flat handle bars I fitted seem too small to space the master cylinder bracket away from the twist grip, as it is the brake hose rather awkwardly travels down between the triple clamps. It does seem odd not to have the master cylinder butted up against the twist grip.
Don't get the wrong idea, the brakes are definitely OK but I would just prefer them to be better. I am hopeful that fitting the best pads and a better designed lever will solve my problems.
Otherwise the bike, which I only put back on the road after ten years of languishing at the back of my shed, is exceeding all expectation. Whilst not a show bike it’s a pretty good looking bit of kit that starts first prod with the right technique and pulls like a train. A new set of premier Amals will have it just about ‘there’.
Anyway, thanks for all who have taken their time to contribute.
 
Alan L said:
Thanks Justin,
Ive been trying to order a lever from RGM without success. Their online shopping seems to have a technical glitch (unless it’s my fault, I am a technological cretin (hence my love of Norton over Ninja ;)). It doesn’t seem to recognise Australia.
I have emailed them but haven’t received a response. Do they have an agent in Australia?
The new flat handle bars I fitted seem too small to space the master cylinder bracket away from the twist grip, as it is the brake hose rather awkwardly travels down between the triple clamps. It does seem odd not to have the master cylinder butted up against the twist grip.
Don't get the wrong idea, the brakes are definitely OK but I would just prefer them to be better. I am hopeful that fitting the best pads and a better designed lever will solve my problems.
Otherwise the bike, which I only put back on the road after ten years of languishing at the back of my shed, is exceeding all expectation. Whilst not a show bike it’s a pretty good looking bit of kit that starts first prod with the right technique and pulls like a train. A new set of premier Amals will have it just about ‘there’.
Anyway, thanks for all who have taken their time to contribute.
Click to expand...
I have issues with an aftermarket handle bar (sold to me as Eurobars for Commando) using the '74 850 MC. There's no way to rotate the MC unit lower into a better comfort positon for me as the brake pressure switch unit fouls on the bars. Since learned the disk brakes MKII's had bars with a different bend to avoid this...have not yet found a source except for OldBritts, but alas they are now closed and would not ship to Canada so I am still searching.

I believe SwooshDave had a solution, to use a difference brake line angle fitting which introduced a 90?? deg bend at the MC connection...so the pressure switch faces forward away from the bars. Might be something you can look into.
 
Alan L said:
Thanks Justin,
Ive been trying to order a lever from RGM without success. Their online shopping seems to have a technical glitch (unless it’s my fault, I am a technological cretin (hence my love of Norton over Ninja ;)). It doesn’t seem to recognise Australia.
I have emailed them but haven’t received a response. Do they have an agent in Australia?
The new flat handle bars I fitted seem too small to space the master cylinder bracket away from the twist grip, as it is the brake hose rather awkwardly travels down between the triple clamps. It does seem odd not to have the master cylinder butted up against the twist grip.
Don't get the wrong idea, the brakes are definitely OK but I would just prefer them to be better. I am hopeful that fitting the best pads and a better designed lever will solve my problems.
Otherwise the bike, which I only put back on the road after ten years of languishing at the back of my shed, is exceeding all expectation. Whilst not a show bike it’s a pretty good looking bit of kit that starts first prod with the right technique and pulls like a train. A new set of premier Amals will have it just about ‘there’.
Anyway, thanks for all who have taken their time to contribute.
Click to expand...
Goday Alan. I ordered by telephone with part numbers from their web site, (UK 10 hours behind Australian eastern standard time). Good service, quick delivery.
 
Tornado said:
I have issues with an aftermarket handle bar (sold to me as Eurobars for Commando) using the '74 850 MC. There's no way to rotate the MC unit lower into a better comfort positon for me as the brake pressure switch unit fouls on the bars. Since learned the disk brakes MKII's had bars with a different bend to avoid this...have not yet found a source except for OldBritts, but alas they are now closed and would not ship to Canada so I am still searching.

I believe SwooshDave had a solution, to use a difference brake line angle fitting which introduced a 90?? deg bend at the MC connection...so the pressure switch faces forward away from the bars. Might be something you can look into.
Click to expand...
Tornado, You can reverse the positions of the hose and switch and it will give you a few more degrees adjustment.
 
Bernhard said:
You think??
All brake calipers wear a taper from the leading edge, you've not measured a part worn disc pad yet.
But if it's not effecting you, don't bother.
Click to expand...
I am not discounting what you say is true, but I have worn out a few sets of pads with this setup, and I would class the wear as typical. I have not checked them with calipers, but the taper is not anything I have noticed by looking at them. Also pad wear is pretty even between the the two.

If it ain’t broke, don’t break it - LOL!
 
cliffa said:
Tornado, You can reverse the positions of the hose and switch and it will give you a few more degrees adjustment.
Click to expand...
Yup done that. Still have interference before getting the brake lever rotated down where I want it.
 
Tornado said:
I have issues with an aftermarket handle bar (sold to me as Eurobars for Commando) using the '74 850 MC. There's no way to rotate the MC unit lower into a better comfort positon for me as the brake pressure switch unit fouls on the bars. Since learned the disk brakes MKII's had bars with a different bend to avoid this...have not yet found a source except for OldBritts, but alas they are now closed and would not ship to Canada so I am still searching.

I believe SwooshDave had a solution, to use a difference brake line angle fitting which introduced a 90?? deg bend at the MC connection...so the pressure switch faces forward away from the bars. Might be something you can look into.
Click to expand...
Hi Tornado,
The handle bars are new, bought from B Js Motorcycles in Brisbane. I simply asked for a set of flat bars for my 74 Mk2.
They really are a problem. Apart from not being able to rotate the master cylinder down sufficiently to get the brake lever in the best position (as you mentioned) the bars just seem ergonomically wrong, forcing my wrists to rotate inwards into an uncomfortable position.
Whether it’s just me who experiences this I cannot tell. Just looking at the line of my forearms in relationship to my wrists looks wrong.
I have always preferred wide low flat bars, any suggestion?
regards Al
 
Alan L said:
Hi Tornado,
The handle bars are new, bought from B Js Motorcycles in Brisbane. I simply asked for a set of flat bars for my 74 Mk2.
They really are a problem. Apart from not being able to rotate the master cylinder down sufficiently to get the brake lever in the best position (as you mentioned) the bars just seem ergonomically wrong, forcing my wrists to rotate inwards into an uncomfortable position.
Whether it’s just me who experiences this I cannot tell. Just looking at the line of my forearms in relationship to my wrists looks wrong.
I have always preferred wide low flat bars, any suggestion?
regards Al
Click to expand...
I have flat bars I use on my bike that work well, and are very comfortable (for me). 18 degree bend, 4″ pull back, 9″ straight center section and 31″ wide.
 
Alan L said:
Hi Tornado,
The handle bars are new, bought from B Js Motorcycles in Brisbane. I simply asked for a set of flat bars for my 74 Mk2.
They really are a problem. Apart from not being able to rotate the master cylinder down sufficiently to get the brake lever in the best position (as you mentioned) the bars just seem ergonomically wrong, forcing my wrists to rotate inwards into an uncomfortable position.
Whether it’s just me who experiences this I cannot tell. Just looking at the line of my forearms in relationship to my wrists looks wrong.
I have always preferred wide low flat bars, any suggestion?
regards Al
Click to expand...
THe bars that are what I originally wanted are shwon here on OldBritts page:


"The factory Norton UK bar (06-4132, $52.95) and measures W 31", H 2", PB 6"."

I think Joe Czech went through a similar bar selection issue with his 850 MK2, and ultimately settled on this one and had full MC rotation range. I believe the 06-4132 part number is not correct, as AN does not show this number on any bar for the 850 MK2 and later bikes and unfortunately no width/rise/pullback measures are presented on their site. That's why I really wanted to get a set from OB's but with their no international shipping, border closure for over 1 year (so I couldn't send it to my US mailing address and go collect it), looks like I need to find another source...
 
Tornado said:
THe bars that are what I originally wanted are shwon here on OldBritts page:


"The factory Norton UK bar (06-4132, $52.95) and measures W 31", H 2", PB 6"."

I think Joe Czech went through a similar bar selection issue with his 850 MK2, and ultimately settled on this one and had full MC rotation range. I believe the 06-4132 part number is not correct, as AN does not show this number on any bar for the 850 MK2 and later bikes and unfortunately no width/rise/pullback measures are presented on their site. That's why I really wanted to get a set from OB's but with their no international shipping, border closure for over 1 year (so I couldn't send it to my US mailing address and go collect it), looks like I need to find another source...
Click to expand...

Flanders 7/8 inch Handlebars

Flanders Handlebars for Metric Bikes.
www.sideroadcycles.com
 
SteveA said:
Riding at night with bush animals surely has risk associated even on the lightest of sports bikes with dual 320mm floating discs, the only way to reduce risk is to see the road better. I would think he needs a better headlamp and maybe even auxilliaries before he needs a better brake!!
Click to expand...
The White Tail deer in my area don't seem to notice vehicles at all and if they're in need of crossing the road will do so directly in front of you. Skittish prey animals that didn't evolve with motorcycles/cars and don't adapt. Meanwhile common crows know that cars don't drive on the shoulder and that they are safe on the other side of the line. Bird brain smaller yet more powerful.
 
That's why their ancestors were the dinosaurs, but unfortunately they got wiped out by a large rock hitting the earth 50 + plus million years ago.
 
JimNH said:
The White Tail deer in my area don't seem to notice vehicles at all and if they're in need of crossing the road will do so directly in front of you. Skittish prey animals that didn't evolve with motorcycles/cars and don't adapt. Meanwhile common crows know that cars don't drive on the shoulder and that they are safe on the other side of the line. Bird brain smaller yet more powerful.
Click to expand...
Best they avoid our (not so) 'Smart' motorways, then......
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top