Batting 1000 / Center stand woes

So last Sunday my upper throttle cable let go (the little barrel on the carb end let go inside the splitter) and left me stranded in front of a church. Coincidence? I think not. A few weeks before that it was a Portuguese layshaft bearing that did me wrong.
So a new cable arrived and I installed it tonight, gave the carbs a good cleaning, and buttoned it all up, then
decided to take a test ride to cool off. Upon leaving the driveway I hear this metallic clanging noise (wtf?) and quickly pull into the front
yard only to discover that HALF of the center stand is now dragging on the pavement like some limp donkey phallus.
Turns out it broke cleanly in the middle of the cross support. John Hudson seems to getting revenge for my earlier snide comments.

Well played Mr. Hudson, Well played...

yep

I have always maintained the Commando center stand was a danger waiting to happen

It is poorly designed with the bushings wearing oblong holes in the cradle and
an inadequate spring that can break anytime and send the center stand slamming up and down off the pavement as you ride

I took mine off 15 years ago and use a Pit Bull rear stand in the garage for any servicing

Oh, and the best part is, after I wheeled it back into my garage, in a sweaty stupor, I unwittingly tried to put it back up on HALF a center stand.
Needless to say this didn't quite work as planned.

I have had to rebuild the centre stands on both my 71 and 74 commando's. I have welded gussets on both stands, and have shifted the spring location on the stand by brazing a chain loop in a position to enable a better angle and more tension when the stand is up. I have also modified both pivot points on both bikes so that the g/box cradle can never wear out again. See my comments made some month or 2 ago.
all the best, Dereck

PS this isn't the end of your modifications. Good Luck and above all have fun.

I have just looked but cant find my write up

What I did was to clean out the holes in the cradle [ while still in the bike. I made up 2 hat bushes the fitted securely into those 2 holes [ both different sizes because of different wear ] the smaller diameter of the hat bush fit in the cradle. the length of that part of the bush is shorter than the thickness of the cradle so that when it is bolted up tight, it cant move. I carefully drilled out the holes on the centre stand and made the bigger diameter of the hat bushes a clearance fit in the centre stand. The length of the larger diameter of the bushes was made long enough to allow the centre stand to pivot when the bolt was tightened up. I used 7/16 bolts on the 750 and 3/8 bolts on the 850. The holes on the bushes suited the bolts used. I fitted 2 of the appropriate sized washers under the heads of the bolts and nuts and used 2 nuts to lock them solid. From memory I had to push the bolt through from the inside to clear the spring on one side. I haven't given you any dimensions because your hole will be different to mine. [ please note, the 750 was modified 40 years ago and the 850 was modified about 4 years ago, hence the different bolt size. Who the hell can remember what the did yesterday let alone 36 years ago? ]
Once you have done this mod I don't think you will ever have a problem with your centre stand again. Contrary to some opinion, you will be able to start you bike on the centre stand and not worry about it falling over. The "SHORTY" part of my stature means I have to be in control of that bike at all times, and the shortfalls in design [ or build ] made by Norton may have nearly all been found now.
I am a retired mechanic that has been used to solving problems and making new parts for older vehicles.
regards,Dereck

Yep, for sure poorly engineered. I removed mine. I found that the only time I really needed it was in the shop. It's laying under the lift table so I can slip it on as needed.

Jeez Mark - don't know who Mr. Hudson is, but he sure did a job on you.
All were items that normally do not cause instant problems.
Mr. Hudson must be some kinda uber-evil dude. Better buy him a beer.

Tom, John Hudson was an important figure in the Norton Owners Club U.K. years ago, and I think previously he was an engineer for
Norton back in the 50's. Anyway the NOC got him to do an "Engine Rebuild" and Gearbox Rebuild" videos that were purchased through the NOC.
On-screen he appears as a nice elderly British gentleman but he's a bit clumsy, probably due to his advancing age and parts tend to fly across the workbench. Still, the videos are very informative and fun to watch. I might have made a few disparaging comments about his old blow torch and
chunk of lumber as a mallet. In reality John possessed more Norton knowledge in his little pinky than I'll ever have.

You should find a set of the videos for winter viewing. Highly enjoyable.
(Oh, I forgot, you don't have winters down there)

How coincidental, Mine just broke in the same place on my last ride. It made quite a racket dragging along the ground. wouldn't you know I forgot to put my too pouch back in the bike for that ride, so no zip ties. I walked to the nearest convenience store and bought a roll of scotch tape to get me home.I didn't bother welding it back together and just bought a new unit from Old Britts. It's much beefier than the original 71 unit.

Upon closer inspection, it appears that the cross brace crack started at the hole for the spring. Go figure (stress riser).
Too bad they didn't use the same loose spring bracket that was used on the Atlas.

So the cross member cracked at the hole for the spring. I'm not surprised.
Probably caused by decades of heavy-weight kick-starting the bike on the center stand.
Bike sits nice and upright on the stand now instead of listing starboard. I've turned-over a new leaf and no longer start
my bike on the center-stand. We'll see how long this lasts. Bolts and bushings were fine.

New spring also installed as the old one was being sawed thru by the crossbar hole ( mutual destruction ).

Anyway, here's a picture. I know how much you guys like seeing broken stuff.

Mine is listing as you say. The stand is well used and the feet are pretty bad. I have figured out the trick of NOT starting it on the stand.
That should take some of the pressure off of it.
I would like to replace it. Where is the best place to get one for a reasonable price?
My bike is a 71.

mschmitz57 said:

So the cross member cracked at the hole for the spring. I'm not surprised.
Probably caused by decades of heavy-weight kick-starting the bike on the center stand.
Bike sits nice and upright on the stand now instead of listing starboard. I've turned-over a new leaf and no longer start
my bike on the center-stand. We'll see how long this lasts. Bolts and bushings were fine.

New spring also installed as the old one was being sawed thru by the crossbar hole (a sort-of "mutual destruction").

Anyway, here's a picture. I know how much you guys like seeing broken shit.

Click to expand...

NEVER start on a stand , side or center. Was that a Portuguese Church per-chance ? :roll:

I bought my replacement stand from Commando Specialties on eBay for $150 (free delivery).
Supposed to be made in the UK. Seems to be similar in fit and quality to the original (i.e. sloppy welds).

Torontonian said:

NEVER start on a stand , side or center. Was that a Portuguese Church per-chance ? :roll:

Click to expand...

Roman Catholic methinks. I hear the Vatican is going to start producing layshaft bearings!

When we were testing the two prototypes, they didn't have stands at all (center or prop type). We had to lean them against a wall, tree or light pole to park them. As I understood it, stands weren't added until the bike became a production item and the detail design was done by the engineering folks at the Plumstead facility. I think it was a modified Atlas item.

There was a lot of early criticism about the center stand grounding at relatively small lean angles. I believe the first prop stand was an after-market product, but don't know who made it. Because of the type of steel alloy used for the frame (or maybe its heat treatment) welding things on was discouraged.

One friend of mine had the center stand pop down when he went over rail road tracks. It hooked like an anchor and sent him and his (then) girl friend over the handle bars!! She married him anyway but my point is that I welded little ramps from the curved foot part up to the down tube part to make sure it couldn't act as an anchor. I also added 1/4 inch of thickness to the bottom so that the rear wheel is always off the ground when I park. I didn't really do a fancy job so it made the whole thing heavier. But, it was proof of concept and I plan to remake the whole thing in chrome molly tubing one day. I should take one of the ideas in this thread though and move my spring mount hole so that it stays up stronger. Dan.

Hooked on RR trails, ugh, what a one in a row surprise ending to a nice safe day out and about. motorson I'll follow your foot pad streamlining lead soon as Trixie's grabs tall grass and vines into garage and once in a while wire or fencing. Pre-Peel fractured on THE Gravel travel knocking rocks into chain and spokes between hitting frame noises. A farmer stopped to look so his bailing twine got me going again.

I have been thinking of fitting some strips of old tyre under the centre stand to give me extra height and to grip the pavement when getting the bike on the stand. The above comments have given me the idea to clamp the ends to the down tubes to effectively cause that ramp mentioned above. I have experienced the centre stand breaking, but it only caused a noise when it scraped along the chip seal. Luckily I was near a friends so was able to get some wire from him to tie it up. On a previous occasion the stand had dropped down [ lack of spring tension ] while doing a hard turn in town one day, so that's when I brazed the piece of chain link onto the cross bar to get more tension and a better angle.
Dereck

Ps a previous had inserted a piece of solid round bar inside the cross pc. It made it heavier, but it was never welded in properly so it broke on me in the above scenario. It sure has been zapped and reinforced now.

mschmitz57 said:

So the cross member cracked at the hole for the spring. I'm not surprised.
Probably caused by decades of heavy-weight kick-starting the bike on the center stand.
Bike sits nice and upright on the stand now instead of listing starboard. I've turned-over a new leaf and no longer start
my bike on the center-stand. We'll see how long this lasts. Bolts and bushings were fine.

New spring also installed as the old one was being sawed thru by the crossbar hole ( mutual destruction ).

Anyway, here's a picture. I know how much you guys like seeing broken stuff.

Click to expand...

My stand broke like that too, but a bit of solid round bar stuffed inside and welded soon had it fettled.

My humble solution to the problem was to take the darn thing off. I never really used it anyway except at home in the shop during some maintenance procedures.
In those cases I just slip it on using a long bolt to hold it in place.