bouncing center stand

I've given up on trying to change the angle of the spring to keep the stand from bouncing down to the pavement because the higher spring postion fouled the bottom gearbox bolt... Eventually I'm going to make a latch to hold the stand in the up position. I'm still keeping the stock spring on it, but I can't rely on the stock spring to hold the stand up... For now, I have the center stand removed, because I don't want to face plant into the asphalt... 😏
 
o0norton0o said:
I've given up on trying to change the angle of the spring to keep the stand from bouncing down to the pavement because the higher spring postion fouled the bottom gearbox bolt... Eventually I'm going to make a latch to hold the stand in the up position. I'm still keeping the stock spring on it, but I can't rely on the stock spring to hold the stand up... For now, I have the center stand removed, because I don't want to face plant into the asphalt... 😏
Click to expand...
Did you try , as you said the two springs one on each side , with the tab welded up ?
 
marinatlas said:
Did you try , as you said the two springs one on each side , with the tab welded up ?
Click to expand...
There wasn't room on the primary side for a spring to pass by the bottom gearbox bolt. Even though there is a matching hole for a spring on the left side plate that the stand mounts to, the space between the mounting plate and the cradle is tiny, so the head of the bottom gearbox bolt completely blocks the left side hole from being used. I thought about drilling a hole in the cradle for the left side spring but the gearbox blocks a possible spring hole from being high enough to pull up on the centerstand,... which is the crux of the single spring problem. It's too horizontal to stop bouncing down.

For now, I am researching a way to lock the stand in the "up" position with a small mechanism.... I'll let you know if I get a solution...
 
Mark Savage said:
My main stand spring from Andover fouled the Andover supplied nut or bolt head no matter which way round I fitted it. So I made a pivot bolt with a reduced head. Also the Andover supplied bolt was all thread (top one) which isn’t the best application for a pivot.
Click to expand...
I too wondered about the use of setbolts (: fully threaded bolts) for the stand's pivot. While it is permissible to load a bolt statically in shear at the threaded section, for dynamic loads it's not good practice. In the long run, bolts and pivot bushes will deform.
AN should take notice and redesign the bolts.

- Knut
 
o0norton0o said:
I've given up on trying to change the angle of the spring to keep the stand from bouncing down to the pavement because the higher spring postion fouled the bottom gearbox bolt... Eventually I'm going to make a latch to hold the stand in the up position. I'm still keeping the stock spring on it, but I can't rely on the stock spring to hold the stand up... For now, I have the center stand removed, because I don't want to face plant into the asphalt... 😏
Click to expand...
If you can find a suitable point to serve as anchoring point, having a custom spring made isn't that expensive.

- Knut
 
mdt-son said:
If you can find a suitable point to serve as anchoring point, having a custom spring made isn't that expensive.

- Knut
Click to expand...
I can make any spring myself.. and that's not the problem.... The problem is that the current spring is horizontally mounted. If you make a fixture to move the mounting hole upward, then the bottom cradle bolt blocks the arm of the spring from coming all the way up..... It's not that I couldn't make an articulated spring arm, I just thought it was a lesser solution and now think a simple "clip" or articulating hook would be a simpler solution
 
o0norton0o said:
I both love and hate that I have to figure stuff out on my own much of the time. Sometimes it's more rewarding to just make the parts to copy someone elses proven design. It's rewarding to make something that you can see already works. I am considering a double spring set up for the center stand because it bounces down.. I'm sure it does that because I have a stiffer than normal suspension. Maybe a bouncing centerstand is less of a problem on softly suspended bikes. I would think that's a physics thing.

Anyway, I was thinking a second spring, but that might just make it bounce against the frame with more force, so I'm also thinking a clip to hold it in the up position. I'd rather have it be a mechanical catch to hold the stand rather than using a bungee cord. I was wondering if any bikes use a clip to fasten the stand securely in the up position. I googled it and got nothing helpful.

My other answer was to weld up an aluminum center stand so the lighter weight stand would be easily held up by the stock spring, but I'm a beginner at welding metals. I could probably make a steel one like I already have but the aluminum would be new territory. (Concours, what do you think???)
Click to expand...
Sorry, I missed this discussion.

Short answer: just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
(Aluminum fabbed mainstand)

I have no experience on the early design.

Did it EVER work OK? I mean guys that bought them new
 
concours said:
Sorry, I missed this discussion.

Short answer: just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
(Aluminum fabbed mainstand)

I have no experience on the early design.

Did it EVER work OK? I mean guys that bought them new
Click to expand...
Mine bounced for as long as I can remember, but only occasionally so hard that I heard a hit on the pavement. Then I added 2 quite small little feet to the stand because they have always been notoriously so short that they don't actually get either wheel off the ground, and it started bouncing off the pavement when layed the bike into sweeping left handers. (the spring is on the right side) I"m not sure what other people have done with them. I think some people just removed them. The other problem is that the side stand is notoriously short too, but I fixed that by adapting a yamaha side stand to the stock side stand lug which has left me able to use the side stand while I work out the issues with the centerstand.

My thought about making an aluminum stand was purely for the lightness of it, but I don't have TIG skills so that's not going to happen... I did some homework on welding aluminum and I'm not equiped, nor experienced, so I'm not looking to open an even bigger can of worms. I am thinking about using a shorter spring and moving the cross rail closer to the pivot point because that moves the mass closer to the pivot too which reduces the force needed to hold it up... Modifying the existing steel center stand of course.

And then there's just fabricating a simple clip to lock it in the up position. Everything else can remain the same. You just fasten the clip lever when it's up, and unclip the lock lever to use the stand.... Sometimes simple is best, not that I always go the simple route without failing at the complex solution first... 😏
 
mdt-son said:
I too wondered about the use of setbolts (: fully threaded bolts) for the stand's pivot. While it is permissible to load a bolt statically in shear at the threaded section, for dynamic loads it's not good practice. In the long run, bolts and pivot bushes will deform.
AN should take notice and redesign the bolts.

- Knut
Click to expand...
It’s not just the fact it is threaded I don’t get but because it is, it makes it smaller and therefore sloppy in the bush. And also because it is threaded it makes it eat into the bush as well. But what do I know, I just cut wood.
 
Last edited:
o0norton0o said:
Mine bounced for as long as I can remember, but only occasionally so hard that I heard a hit on the pavement. Then I added 2 quite small little feet to the stand because they have always been notoriously so short that they don't actually get either wheel off the ground, and it started bouncing off the pavement when layed the bike into sweeping left handers. (the spring is on the right side) I"m not sure what other people have done with them. I think some people just removed them. The other problem is that the side stand is notoriously short too, but I fixed that by adapting a yamaha side stand to the stock side stand lug which has left me able to use the side stand while I work out the issues with the centerstand.

My thought about making an aluminum stand was purely for the lightness of it, but I don't have TIG skills so that's not going to happen... I did some homework on welding aluminum and I'm not equiped, nor experienced, so I'm not looking to open an even bigger can of worms. I am thinking about using a shorter spring and moving the cross rail closer to the pivot point because that moves the mass closer to the pivot too which reduces the force needed to hold it up... Modifying the existing steel center stand of course.

And then there's just fabricating a simple clip to lock it in the up position. Everything else can remain the same. You just fasten the clip lever when it's up, and unclip the lock lever to use the stand.... Sometimes simple is best, not that I always go the simple route without failing at the complex solution first... 😏
Click to expand...
While my back wheel is off, perfect chance to get a shot of mine (which does not bounce)
The top hole for the spring is 1" above pivot centreline.
Cheers
Centre Stand Spring.JPG
 
L.A.B. said:
The stand pivot bolt heads should be on the inside, nuts on the outside.
andover-norton.co.uk

Andover Norton Parts Drawings - Andover Norton Factory Parts - Commando Parts

Andover Norton Parts are the only Norton spare parts in the market manufactured to original drawings, within the factory-approved tolerances, from the correct materials, and with the correct finish.
andover-norton.co.uk

bouncing center stand
Click to expand...
Is there a reason for that, that you know of, Les?
I really can't see it would make any difference.
The only improvement I can see would be to replace the AN bolt ( part-no: 06.2040 ) with one, as mentioned above, had no thread inside the bush, unlike the AN item.
Cheers
 
L.A.B. said:
It's done so the shank of the bolt (or nut) can't touch the spring. If the shank grazes the spring then it's likely to break, that's why the bolt head should be on the inside.
Click to expand...
But they touch anyway, or at least the AN supplied one did and bent the spring enough for me to chuck it, buy a new one and make a proper, unthreaded “Pivot” bolt with a reduced head.
 
L.A.B. said:
It's done so the shank of the bolt (or nut) can't touch the spring. If the shank grazes the spring then it's likely to break, that's why the bolt head should be on the inside.
Click to expand...
Thanks Les - I can see my LHS comes close. Will change. 👍
...and @Mark Savage , you can see from my photo above, the bolt head would offer more clearance.
 
robs ss said:
Thanks Les - I can see my LHS comes close. Will change. 👍
...and @Mark Savage , you can see from my photo above, the bolt head would offer more clearance.
Click to expand...
So,.... my bike is an early model and the center stand is completely different,.... BUT you've given me some excellent data (1" above the pivot) and I'm going to try to make a fatter gauge spring and put some bends in the arm like your spring has to go around the bolts that are blocking me from raising the fixing point side of the spring. The heavier gauge spring will hold the odd shaped arm that I need to make in order to raise it 1 inch !!!
 
o0norton0o said:
So,.... my bike is an early model and the center stand is completely different,.... BUT you've given me some excellent data (1" above the pivot) and I'm going to try to make a fatter gauge spring and put some bends in the arm like your spring has to go around the bolts that are blocking me from raising the fixing point side of the spring. The heavier gauge spring will hold the odd shaped arm that I need to make in order to raise it 1 inch !!!
Click to expand...
o0norton0o said:
Mine bounced for as long as I can remember, but only occasionally so hard that I heard a hit on the pavement. Then I added 2 quite small little feet to the stand because they have always been notoriously so short that they don't actually get either wheel off the ground, and it started bouncing off the pavement when layed the bike into sweeping left handers. (the spring is on the right side) I"m not sure what other people have done with them. I think some people just removed them. The other problem is that the side stand is notoriously short too, but I fixed that by adapting a yamaha side stand to the stock side stand lug which has left me able to use the side stand while I work out the issues with the centerstand.

My thought about making an aluminum stand was purely for the lightness of it, but I don't have TIG skills so that's not going to happen... I did some homework on welding aluminum and I'm not equiped, nor experienced, so I'm not looking to open an even bigger can of worms. I am thinking about using a shorter spring and moving the cross rail closer to the pivot point because that moves the mass closer to the pivot too which reduces the force needed to hold it up... Modifying the existing steel center stand of course.

And then there's just fabricating a simple clip to lock it in the up position. Everything else can remain the same. You just fasten the clip lever when it's up, and unclip the lock lever to use the stand.... Sometimes simple is best, not that I always go the simple route without failing at the complex solution first... 😏
Click to expand...
"Then I added 2 quite small little feet to the stand because they have always been notoriously so short that they don't actually get either wheel off the ground, and it started bouncing off the pavement"

Maybe cut off the extra pads, keep a 3" x 10" strip of 3/8" plywood nearby in the garage.

On the road, I just find a hunk of anything to shim under as needed. Lean the bike one way, kick it under, then the other way, pivot in the shim.
 
concours said:
"Then I added 2 quite small little feet to the stand because they have always been notoriously so short that they don't actually get either wheel off the ground, and it started bouncing off the pavement"

Maybe cut off the extra pads, keep a 3" x 10" strip of 3/8" plywood nearby in the garage.

On the road, I just find a hunk of anything to shim under as needed. Lean the bike one way, kick it under, then the other way, pivot in the shim.
Click to expand...
That is what I have been doing and it's gotten on my nerves... I had the stock side stand which was short by about 3/4", so when I was out and about I was always looking for uneven pavement to use the side stand,... or I would look around and find a bit of something to slide under the stand. At home, I have exactly what you suggest, a strip of plywood that I kept handy to put under the center stand..

Eventually, I found a side stand from a yamaha that I modified to fit the early commando stock lug. That works fine now everywhere. Due to that success, I was motivated to make the center stand work perfectly too. It hasn't been a success on the first attempt,.... but I'm nothing if not persistent. It's just a matter of time. I'm going to order some heavier 3mm music wire and wind the spring I need with suitable bends to go around the gearbox bottom bolt and I'm very sure I'll get the higher spring angle that I need to hold the center stand up in the retracted position.... I'm a very persistent student. I don't always get it right the first time. I've always had this OCD with mechanical objects. When I was a kid my parents had a drawer that they would put stuff that broke into that was "My Drawer" and I was allowed to dissect and analyze anything in there,.... but was not allowed to take apart anything that was still working,.... like the cars or the television... 🤣

My OCD hasn't deminished with age 😏
 


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