ARD Magneto for Commando

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acotrel said:
I presume the ARD must be a very small unit ? Who is the supplier ?
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It's a guy in the states who specialises in another make of British bike. I believe he has inadvertently stumbled upon a commando unit. He isn't a supplier that could offer any sort of after sales service but I am led to believe it is a brand new complete unit with the instructions. If I decide against it I will pass on his details through the forum for sale section.
I am leaning toward the joe Hunt unit just because if something goes wrong, I can at least get replacement parts. Particularly due to the price $800+, I don't want it to be a one fit wonder then a throw away trinket.
 
jseng1 said:
I was at a National BOTT race in the mid 80s and doing well with world class riders on my 850 monoshock with boyer ignition. The boyer wires failed inside the points cover and it crapped out. This was my last National AMA race and it would have been nice to finish.

Its too bad they don't make the ARD small magneto anymore. So my favorite is the current Joe Hunt with rare earth magnets - very hot spark, easy starting and has never failed. Pre rare earth mags either Morris or Joe Hunt don't work as well. Lucas mags are junk in my opinion. Now there will be a new add on for the JS Joe Hunts that fit Commando and have fixed ignition - a retard lever for starting. I'm going to offer them very soon (as in a few days).

What I don't like about boyers is the screwy advance that never stops and the fact that it doesn't spark the first time around - the first time around just activates the ignition - makes for stomp hard kickstarting.

photo of retard lever for mag starting below:

ARD Magneto for Commando


If someone would reintroduce the small ARD, downsize the JOE Hunt, or come out with a reliable batteryless ignition from the two stroke dirt bike industry - I would be interested. Until then its the old "neato magneto".
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Jim, hunt also offer an accessory the makes it key operated. I imagine that this is the kill switch loop that is require but am not sure if it is housed in the magneto or external. Do you have any info on this?
 
With my Matchless singles the idle always speeds up maybe 500 rpm when the manual advance lever on the handlebars is advanced. So if you used a little lever like that on the mag itself where would you set the idle - so it was at the correct idle speed (~1000rpm) when starting or when in normal operation? Maybe a cable could be rigged to the lever so that you could control advance/retard from the handlebars. :)
 
Dkt26 said:
Jim, hunt also offer an accessory the makes it key operated. I imagine that this is the kill switch loop that is require but am not sure if it is housed in the magneto or external. Do you have any info on this?
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switch is fitted right in the housing.
 
Yeah I thought that was the case. I imagine that this option is only for their harly magnetos but I havnt explored it. The key option would be great with Jim's units along with the other upgraded but not sure of it can be supplied by Jim like this.
Jim???? Can't see it on the JS website as an option.
 
Dkt26 said:
Yeah I thought that was the case. I imagine that this option is only for their harly magnetos but I havnt explored it. The key option would be great with Jim's units along with the other upgraded but not sure of it can be supplied by Jim like this.
Jim???? Can't see it on the JS website as an option.
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Yes the key is a option and I set mine up so the key is remote and easy to reach but this is more work. Its best to just get a wheel lock on a disc lock which is what I use. I lock the bike & forget the ignition - or someone can just push it away..

I don't offer the key on my website - I'll check into it. Or you can just mount a key somewhere wired to the kill switch wire.

The retard lever will have to wait a couple weeks.
 
Holmeslice said:
DWS made a good point - if you ran (run) a Boyer, you could rest comfortably on the fact that someone in the paddock will have a spare black box/rotor/stator/coil/battery for that inevitable moment it craps out on you.

Fortunately I have no experience with crapping out, thanks. :wink:
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I really need to start following my own advice. :lol:

Ken provided a good summary of many of the trials and tribulations of magnetos, points and electronic ignitions. They all have their problems.

From my racing experience the Boyer has not given me a problem. The battery in a constant loss system has been the weak link for me.
 
It is difficult to change the condensor in most magnetos at a race meeting. You can always carry a spare battery and black box for a total loss system..
 
You can always carry a spare magneto.

1.) I have seen so many races lost due to batteries dying on a constant loss system.
2.) I lost or DNF's so many races due to batteries dying on a constant loss system.

Generally, a lead acid battery used in constant loss (deep cycle) systems is really not good application.

Regarding items 1 & 2 above, the same can be said for magnetos.

With the ARD magneto, other than the mechanical failure of the spindle which is now fixed, it never let me down while underway. The ARD was really an elloquent application.

Unfortunately they are now cost prohibitive and service is unknown or unobtainable.

If I had a spare, changing out and timing an ARD is trivial and can be done nearly as fast as changing a battery in many instances.
 
Modern small-package AGM batteries are PERFECT for total-loss electronic ignitions and (depending on the model) can last well beyond a race weekend without a recharge.
 
Even better use Lithium ion batteries : lighter and allowing deeper discharge . They are also acid free, so no spit . a bit expensive but they last much more.
They allow quick charge , even less than 10 minutes, which is another key factor for racing .
 
JRD said:
a bit expensive but they last much more.
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Ask Boeing about that "bit".... :mrgreen:

LiFePo4 are well suited for the purpose and you trade in some capacity for a lot of safety compared to other Li-based batts. Four cells works well with 12V systems.


Tim
 
Ok, if your race bike is really flying , you can be submitted to FAA regulation :)
 
When a magneto is working it is a magic divine miracle from heaven providing free spark for all; when they aren't working they are a beast from hell sent to torment you. When I first started using the vintage Joe Hunt mag I have, I had a few issues with it which were resolved when I replaced the wiring connections inside and then the coil and condenser. It was fine for a long time until it developed a sudden death condition at Mid-Ohio one year- it would not spark and then after you messed with it, it would spark! Then I would triumphantly head out on the track only to be brought back by the crash truck after it died half a lap in. After 4 or 5 sessions of this happening, I was half out of my mind and wanting to smash it off the bike with a hammer and throw it in a river. Kenny actually helped me fit a Boyer on the bike Saturday morning and I made my races. I took the Boyer off only to have the same problems the next weekend and had to put it back on again. Herb finally diagnosed the problem- the Allen-key like 'axle' that provides the drive between the mag and the timing chest back had broken internally and in such a way that sometimes, it would hook up and work. Last summer at Mosport the mag again gave me some problems when it was mysteriously loosening itself off repeatedly- I finally figured out it was the Joe Hunt adapter plate had broken on the inside countersunk holes. I rigged up a Boyer again and made most of the races. Despite a few issues I had (crazy stuff always happens to me) mags are great. I did notice that when running the bike after taking the points driven mag off that there is a 2-3 hp pick up with the electronic ignition- it is just a bit smoother at 7000 rpm. I once dropped out of a race on the last lap when my Boyer black box died and I had a Boyer pick up unit fail in practice once- so they are not perfect either. Keep in mind also that I have seen many many guys multiple times (including Kenny!) crap out on the track and miss races only find out that their battery was flat.
 
Yep. That's the real world of racing, right? If you're like me, you could make a long list of all the things that have unexpectedly broken or come loose during a race. So you develop a fix, a new design, stronger parts, or maybe just duct tape and safety wire, and the next time it's just something new that fails. One of my most frustrating ones was an irregular miss on my Production Racer, that I chased for months. The bike finally died completely during an AMA Superbike race at Sears Point, and I was finally able to find the cause. The tank had rubbed through the insulation on one of the wires along the backbone, and it was shorting to the chassis. Just part of the fun, right?

Ken
 
Doug MacRae said:
When a magneto is working it is a magic divine miracle from heaven providing free spark for all; when they aren't working they are a beast from hell sent to torment you. When I first started using the vintage Joe Hunt mag I have, I had a few issues with it which were resolved when I replaced the wiring connections inside and then the coil and condenser. It was fine for a long time until it developed a sudden death condition at Mid-Ohio one year- it would not spark and then after you messed with it, it would spark! Then I would triumphantly head out on the track only to be brought back by the crash truck after it died half a lap in. After 4 or 5 sessions of this happening, I was half out of my mind and wanting to smash it off the bike with a hammer and throw it in a river. Kenny actually helped me fit a Boyer on the bike Saturday morning and I made my races. I took the Boyer off only to have the same problems the next weekend and had to put it back on again. Herb finally diagnosed the problem- the Allen-key like 'axle' that provides the drive between the mag and the timing chest back had broken internally and in such a way that sometimes, it would hook up and work. Last summer at Mosport the mag again gave me some problems when it was mysteriously loosening itself off repeatedly- I finally figured out it was the Joe Hunt adapter plate had broken on the inside countersunk holes. I rigged up a Boyer again and made most of the races. Despite a few issues I had (crazy stuff always happens to me) mags are great. I did notice that when running the bike after taking the points driven mag off that there is a 2-3 hp pick up with the electronic ignition- it is just a bit smoother at 7000 rpm. I once dropped out of a race on the last lap when my Boyer black box died and I had a Boyer pick up unit fail in practice once- so they are not perfect either. Keep in mind also that I have seen many many guys multiple times (including Kenny!) crap out on the track and miss races only find out that their battery was flat.
Click to expand...

The Hunts need some updating.

For points cover mount Cmdo types - The hex shaft can be soft as supplied - replace with a piece of allen wrench - much better steel. JB weld the mounting plate to the timing cover for better security because the screws to the timing cover are very small.

For Atlas types - Get rid the slotted screws and use allen screws so they won't fall off the tool when changing points etc. Elongate the mounting holes so you can get a little adjustment and not have to move the sprocket each time. Most important - drill & thread the cam center for a 10/24 allen screw and loctite it in place so you can turn the armature when the sprocket is loose and time the thing without going crazy (see photo).

ARD Magneto for Commando
 
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