Oil Change Demon

I'm at 10000k's so doing a service today.

I'm not the first owner, and know the bike has been serviced locally. Theres some chewing on the hex, and I could easily strip this. I'm no expert; these are my thoughts and how I didn't strip it. Plenty on here know more than me.

My suggestion is, don;'t just push the hex in. especially if someone else has had a go before. If you just push an allen key in there it won't go in far enough. This is under the bike, it can get build up in the hex etc,.

Case in point; this is how far I can get the key in by hand; (and I gave it a fair go) vs a few taps with a copper hammer.:

Oil Change Demon
Oil Change Demon


I'd be pretty confident to say, that if I hadn't used a 3/8 socket and I hadn't given it a tap with a copper hammer, I'd have stripped it.
 
Gojuu said:
I'm at 10000k's so doing a service today.

I'm not the first owner, and know the bike has been serviced locally. Theres some chewing on the hex, and I could easily strip this. I'm no expert; these are my thoughts and how I didn't strip it. Plenty on here know more than me.

My suggestion is, don;'t just push the hex in. especially if someone else has had a go before. If you just push an allen key in there it won't go in far enough. This is under the bike, it can get build up in the hex etc,.

Case in point; this is how far I can get the key in by hand; (and I gave it a fair go) vs a few taps with a copper hammer.:

View attachment 118657View attachment 118658

I'd be pretty confident to say, that if I hadn't used a 3/8 socket and I hadn't given it a tap with a copper hammer, I'd have stripped it.
Click to expand...
Yep, with you there Gj. It’s hit or miss using a conventional Allan key - managed to crack it yesterday though, thankfully.

Took a good quality 6mm Allan key - carefully reduced its short length with a cutting disk. Modified a veh jack handle to accept the Allan Key (lateral slot to support the key). Only took 15 mins.

Made sure the hex slot was nice and clean - as you show, there is significant depth (approx 8 mm). She cracked off (using Richard 7’s rocking technique) but it took significant force. Could have stripped the hex out; not the end of the world but certainly a PIA!

Will be replacing it with a conventional sump plug.
 
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Out of interest Gj:

What oil did you use?
Did you run the bike before dumping the oil? Not, I’m guessing, if ya had to strip the exhaust off?
 
Yes, after around 2016, they have a pick-up gauze. It's never really been a service item, just like the pick up gauze in your car etc aint...but no harm in removing the plate and checking it out.
Be careful with cross references on the oil filter. The Bosch item has fibre end caps, that seal against the crankcase....all the cross references I've seen fitted so far have plastic end caps, which do not seal against the crankcase, and worse still, quite often don't fit into the recess of the crankcase, get crushed and buckled up and then offer zero in the way of filtration. Worst brand for that appears to be Framm. In the filters original application ie a car, these cross references no doubt work fine...but you need to be a little more careful with the 961.
 
Here is what I can tell you about the inline filter. 1st is slows the oil circulation just by the filter. Second, because the ID of the filter entry is A LOT smaller than the hose, it becomes a choke point for the oil system that is already poorly designed. Your valves need oil and pressure to open(hydraulic lifters) so when you have bikes that are hard starting or one cylinder is hotter than another, I look at the oil system as well when working on a 961. Engines don't start well when the bike is starved for oil. This is even more relevant when the bike has sumped.

pressure loss can be checked with either an inline gauge or a gauge at the oil pressure sensor. You see the difference in pressure with and without the inline.

Oil pressure should be checked as a part of maintenance since the pressure switch is set to a low bar.

Also, if your lines under the tank are not routed right, they will flatten with the engine heat, even further straining the system.

I suggest that when you do an oil change, you get a 200 -300 micron filter to strain the oil and see what comes out You can get them from any paint supply in both 190 or 260 and it is a funnel so it way to pour into

Just some thoughts for you.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Yep, with you there Gj. It’s hit or miss using a conventional Allan key - managed to crack it yesterday though, thankfully.

Took a good quality 6mm Allan key - carefully reduced its short length with a cutting disk. Modified a veh jack handle to accept the Allan Key (lateral slot to support the key). Only took 15 mins.

Made sure the hex slot was nice and clean - as you show, there is significant depth (approx 8 mm). She cracked off (using Richard 7’s rocking technique) but it took significant force. Could have stripped the hex out; not the end of the world but certainly a PIA!

Will be replacing it with a conventional sump plug.
Click to expand...
Buy a Dimple Plug if you can find one. They are first-rate, unlike some of the Chinese junk
 
City Garage said:
Here is what I can tell you about the inline filter. 1st is slows the oil circulation just by the filter. Second, because the ID of the filter entry is A LOT smaller than the hose, it becomes a choke point for the oil system that is already poorly designed. Your valves need oil and pressure to open(hydraulic lifters) so when you have bikes that are hard starting or one cylinder is hotter than another, I look at the oil system as well when working on a 961. Engines don't start well when the bike is starved for oil. This is even more relevant when the bike has sumped.

pressure loss can be checked with either an inline gauge or a gauge at the oil pressure sensor. You see the difference in pressure with and without the inline.

Oil pressure should be checked as a part of maintenance since the pressure switch is set to a low bar.

Also, if your lines under the tank are not routed right, they will flatten with the engine heat, even further straining the system.

I suggest that when you do an oil change, you get a 200 -300 micron filter to strain the oil and see what comes out You can get them from any paint supply in both 190 or 260 and it is a funnel so it way to pour into

Just some thoughts for you.
Click to expand...
Great info CG👍 I’m gonna check the strainer today. If it is completely clear I’ll give some thought to removing it.
 
City Garage said:
Buy a Dimple Plug if you can find one. They are first-rate, unlike some of the Chinese junk
Click to expand...
shop.motorsport-developments.co.uk

Dimple Products

The Dimple Magnetic Oil Drain plug is without doubt the best magnetic oil drain plug on the market. All steel construction, real engineering quality control and the strongest magnet available.
shop.motorsport-developments.co.uk shop.motorsport-developments.co.uk

These?
 
So, lesson learned - maybe don’t blindly trust your dealer mechanic!!

Serviced the bike myself today, for the first time. Sump plug, oil pump union bolts, gearbox filler plug and even gearbox level plug were soooo tight it felt like I may strip them all during removal. In fact, the level plug came out in an irregular way - the thread is stripped.

IMG_1787.jpeg IMG_7905.jpeg

IMG_7899.jpeg

The in-line strainer obviously leaked when cleaned last service, so the mechanic filled it with some form of rubberised gloop! Must have been easier than changing the crimped o-ring - a replacement for which he probably did’nt have!

So the gearbox level plug - that’s a problem! Going to run a tap carefully down the gearbox hole, manufacture a new level plug and hope it has sufficient purchase. If not, next size up. Change oil again to (hopefully) get rid off any swarf - swarf being the enemy here of course!

Thoughts on the level plug issue gratefully received!

If you want something doing properly………… :rolleyes: !
 
Last edited:
Stephen_Spencer said:
So, lesson learned - maybe don’t blindly trust your dealer mechanic!!

Serviced the bike myself today, for the first time. Sump plug, oil pump union bolts, gearbox filler plug and even gearbox level plug were soooo tight it felt like I may strip them all during removal. In fact, the level plug came out in an irregular way - the thread is stripped.

View attachment 118669 View attachment 118670

View attachment 118671

The in-line strainer obviously leaked when cleaned last service, so the mechanic filled it with some form of rubberised gloop! Must have been easier than changing the crimped o-ring - a replacement for which he probably did’nt have!

So the gearbox level plug - that’s a problem! Going to run a tap carefully down the gearbox hole, manufacture a new level plug and hope it has sufficient purchase. If not, next size up. Change oil again to (hopefully) get rid off any swarf - swarf being the enemy here of course!

Thoughts on the level plug issue gratefully received!

If you want something doing properly………… :rolleyes: !
Click to expand...
Lesson learnt… don’t get your bike serviced at a butchers shop :oops:

A bit late of course… but according to Stu that level plug is a known weakness and he advises leaving it alone and draining fully then re filling with the correct amount each time.

It is ‘possible’ to repair a thread like this in situ to a bigger thread.

You need a steady hand, go slow, go up gradually in drill sizes, only go forward a little each time, then withdraw to clean off swarf and use grease on the drill bit to hold swarf.

Similar with the tap, slow and steady, withdrawing to clean, use grease.

Then drain the oil frequently for the next few hundred miles.

Definitely possible. Definitely NOT guaranteed.
 
Last edited:
Stephen_Spencer said:
So, lesson learned - maybe don’t blindly trust your dealer mechanic!!

Serviced the bike myself today, for the first time. Sump plug, oil pump union bolts, gearbox filler plug and even gearbox level plug were soooo tight it felt like I may strip them all during removal. In fact, the level plug came out in an irregular way - the thread is stripped.

View attachment 118669 View attachment 118670

View attachment 118671

The in-line strainer obviously leaked when cleaned last service, so the mechanic filled it with some form of rubberised gloop! Must have been easier than changing the crimped o-ring - a replacement for which he probably did’nt have!

So the gearbox level plug - that’s a problem! Going to run a tap carefully down the gearbox hole, manufacture a new level plug and hope it has sufficient purchase. If not, next size up. Change oil again to (hopefully) get rid off any swarf - swarf being the enemy here of course!

Thoughts on the level plug issue gratefully received!

If you want something doing properly………… :rolleyes: !
Click to expand...
Blimey, what a mess!

If you run a tap in, fill the flutes with grease first, and it will capture most of the swarf.
 
Thanks guys - good advice. Exactly what this forum’s all about👍! Never heard of the g’box level plug weakness; must have missed that.

Burst a bit of a bubble for me to be honest. Generally trusted my dealer mechanics - even took steps to get to know them. A disappointment for sure, but I’ll get is sorted. Sort it yoursen’ from this point on!🙃
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
So, lesson learned - maybe don’t blindly trust your dealer mechanic!!

Serviced the bike myself today, for the first time. Sump plug, oil pump union bolts, gearbox filler plug and even gearbox level plug were soooo tight it felt like I may strip them all during removal. In fact, the level plug came out in an irregular way - the thread is stripped.

View attachment 118669 View attachment 118670

View attachment 118671

The in-line strainer obviously leaked when cleaned last service, so the mechanic filled it with some form of rubberised gloop! Must have been easier than changing the crimped o-ring - a replacement for which he probably did’nt have!

So the gearbox level plug - that’s a problem! Going to run a tap carefully down the gearbox hole, manufacture a new level plug and hope it has sufficient purchase. If not, next size up. Change oil again to (hopefully) get rid off any swarf - swarf being the enemy here of course!

Thoughts on the level plug issue gratefully received!

If you want something doing properly………… :rolleyes: !
Click to expand...
Can’t you order a new sump plate ? At the very least remove the old sump plate before working on it . At least the 961 has a removable sump plate and made of steel !
 


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