Wiring tips n tricks...?

Here is a positive ground version with some additional stuff like meter lights...

I recently rewired my bike with much help from this forum. Here is my thread with a ton of good info from some great guys.

please-review-wiring-plan-t18894.html

And here is my ultra professional hand drawn diagram of what I ended up with. it's not shown in the diagram but I also ran dedicated grounds rather than using the frame. I ran a ground wire from the tail light back to the battery and a 8g (overkill I know) wire from the battery to one of the coil bracket mounting bolts. All the rest of the wiring is in the headlight shell with a ground wire back to the coil mount. I used an automotive type woven metal ground strap from one of the headsteady mounting bolts to the same point. It seems to tolerate the shaking of the motor really well. It has made a huge difference in my bike! I had a terrible intermittent miss that I could never track down that is now gone. It also seems to pull harder and smoother that it ever did before. I similar goals to yours, very simple and no extra stuff. I did however put in relays for the head light. It is quite a bit brighter now, making the bike almost safe to ride at night! However I can't tell you how much of the improvement is the relays and how much is the elimination of other problems I may have had with the original harness. I would also use ebay to source components. I spent hours going from place to place trying to get shrink tube, fuse box, relays ect. and couldn't find what I wanted. A few minutes on ebay and I had it all with free shipping. Good luck!

That is my hand drawn diagram that I actually built the harness to. I used the Fuzeblocks fuse box which has a relay to turn on all the fused circuits. It makes it so the ignition switch only does one thing and if you get low on voltage for the relay you can just move one fuse and power the ignition without the switch. I also did most of my connection inside the headlight with the handle bar switch wires going forward into the head light instead of turning back under the tank. I used a headlight harness and got the correct color wires from two other wiring harnesses. I tried to keep everything sort of laid out how it is on the bike. Those little unlabeled filaments inboard of the blinkers are the instrument lights. I also added a nifty little voltage indicator to the center of the three indicator lights on the headlight which turns green above 12.5 volts. This is all negative ground and I also have the Rita diagrams for running one with negative ground.
Cheers, Dan.

Nater_Potater said:

Fast Eddie said:

Gents,

I've got a 3 phase alternator, combined rectifier control unit job, Tri-Spark with coil from Matt at CNW, and as little else as possible; capacitor, zenor, assimilator, indicators, etc all gone. Not even got any warning lights!

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Assuming your only interest is to have a running bike, pretty much just connect the dots. Just make sure you have someway of killing the engine in case of stuck carbys. However, unsure about the Tri-Spark. Do the instructions say anything about needing battery or capacitor to "float" it through the alternator cycles? 'Tried to look in the Tri-Spark web site, but it's being a bugger.

If you want lights, you really only need to tap into the output from the rectifier to supply power to the headlight and brake switches. That, and make sure you have good grounds coming back from the lamps. Try this on for size: http://cycles.evanfell.com/wp-content/u ... n_Fell.png
Honestly, I'm not sure you'd need the 30-amp fuze from the charging circuit, but it couldn't hurt.

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Hey, if you want good lights [ for night vision ], 2 relays are a must.

Torontonian said:

Modern connectors , 2 nice big grounds (one from motor to frame ,one from battery to frame).

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Don't forget, if you want good lights [ for night vision ], an earth from the battery direct to the headlamp is a must. I have better [ brighter lights ] on both my commando's than a friend had on his 8 year old Guzzi.

Nater_Potater said:

Fast Eddie said:

Gents,

I've got a 3 phase alternator, combined rectifier control unit job, Tri-Spark with coil from Matt at CNW, and as little else as possible; capacitor, zenor, assimilator, indicators, etc all gone. Not even got any warning lights!

Click to expand...

Assuming your only interest is to have a running bike, pretty much just connect the dots. Just make sure you have someway of killing the engine in case of stuck carbys. However, unsure about the Tri-Spark. Do the instructions say anything about needing battery or capacitor to "float" it through the alternator cycles? 'Tried to look in the Tri-Spark web site, but it's being a bugger.

If you want lights, you really only need to tap into the output from the rectifier to supply power to the headlight and brake switches. That, and make sure you have good grounds coming back from the lamps. Try this on for size: http://cycles.evanfell.com/wp-content/u ... n_Fell.png
Honestly, I'm not sure you'd need the 30-amp fuze from the charging circuit, but it couldn't hurt.

Click to expand...

If you want good lights, you have to have power direct from the battery via 2 relays and an earth wire from the battery to the head lamp.There is room in the head lamp housing for 2 relays.The switches waste too much energy. If you want to ride in the dark, don't bother. see other comments.

vintner said:

G'day,
I did a complete rewire to my 1975 Mk 3 last year, in addition to earlier modifications like Trispark ignition and dual outlet coil, solid state rectifyer/regulator, solid state 'ignition' assimilator, I added new switch gear, ignition switch, console with warning lights (from CNW). I have since deleted the warning light assimilator and replaced with a voltmeter (also from CNW) and reassigned the red pilot light as an oil pressure warning light (requiring fitting of pressure switch, which is plumbed into a 'T' taken of rocker supply line which also supply to oil pressure gauge).
If you have a Mk3 you don't need the capacitor if your starter is modified with 4 brushes and the battery is in good state of charge. Good earth from battery and engine to frame are essential.
In my opinion the important points to consider are to use Japanese type bullet connects with clear plastic covers crimping with the correct tool will suffice but I also solder the wires into connectors which prevents the wire pullling out when unplugging. Don't be frightened of wiring diagrams, I drew seperate circuits for each function and apart from using black for power (+ positive) and red (- negative/earth) assigned other coloured wires for each circuit, sticking to the stock colours where applicable.
The inside of the headlight often resembles a tangle of wires, several circuits can be re-routed in part outside the headlight reducing the mess.
The advantages of replacing original items like rectifyer, capacitor and zener diodes includes simplified wiring and increased reliability.
I'm happy to send the individual circuit diagrams is this ight help.
Cheers, Vintner

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the best earth to engine from the battery is an earth wire connected to the battery and the engine. Look at the Jap cars around, they often split the earth wire so it goes direct to both chassis and engine. Those jap buggers don't make the best vehicles without learning from the best of everyone else.

Al-otment said:

Fast Eddie said:

Gents,

I will shortly be entering the dark underworld of motorcycle wiring.

The wiring on my Commando was pretty dire, and as I was going down a none standard route, I decided it best to bin the lot and start from scratch.

I've got a 3 phase alternator, combined rectifier control unit job, Tri-Spark with coil from Matt at CNW, and as little else as possible; capacitor, zenor, assimilator, indicators, etc all gone. Not even got any warning lights!

My objective is to keep things as simple and minimalist as possible, so forgive me, but I don't wish to instal banks of relays etc.

Any handy hints n tips from those who have been before, and would care to share?

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Relays ensure max. voltage to what ever, horns, main beam, ignition. They by-pass all other switches and get their power direct from the battery. Essential kit in a harness - plus earth wire for each component back to the battery.

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Here bloody here, here. you got it mate

Matt Spencer said:

As youre in olde blighty , best quality wires ive found are Hillman Hunter . :shock: Correct colour codes with quality fittings .

You remove , strip harness , wash . select correct colour and fitting & fit at one end . Secure tomparallilly with a few strategeically placed cable ties -
wire bundles at take off / split points .

Worth salveageining the fittings from unused to use , though youll wreck a few . Then ARMOURALL WIRE , wipe and tape bind - with quality tape .

Though under $300 is reasonable value for a good premade loom . Mk IIIs were alledgedly T160 at some time . Allows a few spares for mistakes .

H. H.

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huh, didn't know the brits could make good wiring gear. Especially the Hillman hunter/avenger variety. They certainly made bloody shitty indicator assys etc.

Matt Spencer said:

As youre in olde blighty , best quality wires ive found are Hillman Hunter . :shock: Correct colour codes with quality fittings .

You remove , strip harness , wash . select correct colour and fitting & fit at one end . Secure tomparallilly with a few strategeically placed cable ties -
wire bundles at take off / split points .

Worth salveageining the fittings from unused to use , though youll wreck a few . Then ARMOURALL WIRE , wipe and tape bind - with quality tape .

Though under $300 is reasonable value for a good premade loom . Mk IIIs were alledgedly T160 at some time . Allows a few spares for mistakes .

H. H.

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huh, didn't know the brits could make good wiring gear. Especially the Hillman hunter/avenger variety. They certainly made bloody shitty indicator assys etc.

Hi Guys, sorry for the comments, but I made good money in my auto repair business fixing the shit that came out of Britain. from austins, hilmans up to jags and rollers. Im sold on jap stuff now,., I buy only Toyotas. Shit apart from tyres, brakes and oil changes , I have had to change 1 bulb on my 96 l/cruiser. Its don't 250,000 kms. havnt even had to change any radiator hoses. hunter top hoses would last 30.,000 mile if you were lucky.
I luv my Norton though. even considering all its faults which I have had to modify . I would be happy to get on either bike right now and do 2000 miles . Yes I have 2 commandos. Both go well. the 850 is good for cruising. The 750, well what an amazing sound. Goes like shit. [ goes very well in other peoples language ] I have been in the mechanics game too long and cant stand fellas doing the wrong thing, or simply being too s....d to understand.
once again sorry about that

JAPS ? Good Cars . They dont even make GOOD Aston Martins these days . Tho the 392 Hemi Cuda looks o.k. . :lol: :twisted: .

Ken kairns Auto Electrics , back late 70s assured me he had a Job for Life , With S*#t British Components ( good Wiring ) and S*#t JAP Wiring , 1978 & pre Variety .

The spades & sheaths on the Hunter Stuff are V Good , for automotive stuff , at least the ones ive seen , In N.Z. . Bit meatier than FORD & Heavy neoprean ? sheaths .
If matching Id think as good as any . CRIMPED in Yachts gets OSMOSIS , the salt gets in & it gets dysfunctional . So soldered connections is the only way to go , there .
And elsewhere , some would say .

Mk IV Zodiacs Looms are suitable for rewireing Aircraft Carriers and small towns , you could sell whats left over as scrap for the copper . :twisted:

NOT just the resistance / Voltage Drop in the Switches ,

the silly little copper arms with the silly little contact points wont take 5.000 Volts , and can have difficulty with twelve , or several AMPS or Watts or whatever .
Std H/Lamps 55/60 maybe not burn the contacts :roll: but a 90 / 100 might let the smoke out .
Therefore you run WIRES capeable of carrying the CURRENT , and switches ( like the Old Stuff :twisted: ) or fit a RELAY ( or two ) so the piddling current to switch
the RELAY carrying the Working Load through the Fancy wires does the work , Electrickerilly .

If you cant afford a Magneto and Dont like the dark . Just as well one of the cows was black AND white . :wink: :lol:

kerinorton said:

Matt Spencer said:

huh, didn't know the brits could make good wiring gear. Especially the Hillman hunter/avenger variety. They certainly made bloody shitty indicator assys etc.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What makes you think Hillman made them :?:

There is a remote possability LUCAS made some things that DID work .
Maybe the Rootes Group wasnt a pack of skinflints and didnt specify MINIMUM PRICE .
Though CHRYSLER owned them by then , and they saved money by having No Accountants . :lol: :?

Wiring is my weakest subject, but I moved from a C minus to a B plus when a Hotrod building friend told me about labelled wiring. He buys complete wiring kits for about $500 and makes his own harnesses. There are always a lot of 6- 10 foot pieces left over, which he saves. I was able to wire up my project bike from his left over bits. Colour coded wiring beats the heck out of all black wiring and labelled wiring beats the hell out of colour coded. The labelled wiring is also colour coded.
Glen

Nater_Potater said:

Fast Eddie said:

Gents,

I've got a 3 phase alternator, combined rectifier control unit job, Tri-Spark with coil from Matt at CNW, and as little else as possible; capacitor, zenor, assimilator, indicators, etc all gone. Not even got any warning lights!

Click to expand...

Assuming your only interest is to have a running bike, pretty much just connect the dots. Just make sure you have someway of killing the engine in case of stuck carbys. However, unsure about the Tri-Spark. Do the instructions say anything about needing battery or capacitor to "float" it through the alternator cycles? 'Tried to look in the Tri-Spark web site, but it's being a bugger.

If you want lights, you really only need to tap into the output from the rectifier to supply power to the headlight and brake switches. That, and make sure you have good grounds coming back from the lamps. Try this on for size: http://cycles.evanfell.com/wp-content/u ... n_Fell.png
Honestly, I'm not sure you'd need the 30-amp fuze from the charging circuit, but it couldn't hurt.

Click to expand...

I thought you should to have a capacitor for easy starting. If so, where would it go?

I thought you should to have a capacitor for easy starting. If so, where would it go?[/quote]

The capacitor is there only in case of a flat battery to give you just enough to power the coils (if your lucky).
All other electric items must be off though and you must disconnect the battery so that as you kick the tiny amount of power the alternator makes (more luck needed) charges the capacitor only as otherwise it will go to the failed battery.
The capacitor can fail itself an often does over time which can then drain the battery.

Think of it like a modern car where you get a can of tyre sealant not a spare wheel. If your lucky after messing about it may get you home.

toppy said:

I thought you should to have a capacitor for easy starting. If so, where would it go?

Click to expand...

The capacitor is there only in case of a flat battery to give you just enough to power the coils (if your lucky).
All other electric items must be off though and you must disconnect the battery so that as you kick the tiny amount of power the alternator makes (more luck needed) charges the capacitor only as otherwise it will go to the failed battery.
The capacitor can fail itself an often does over time which can then drain the battery.

Think of it like a modern car where you get a can of tyre sealant not a spare wheel. If your lucky after messing about it may get you home.[/quote]

I was thinking of the "no battery ignition" where there is no battery at all. In the Evan Fell wiring diagram, there is no capacitor.

Diablouph said:

toppy said:

I thought you should to have a capacitor for easy starting. If so, where would it go?

Click to expand...

The capacitor is there only in case of a flat battery to give you just enough to power the coils (if your lucky).
All other electric items must be off though and you must disconnect the battery so that as you kick the tiny amount of power the alternator makes (more luck needed) charges the capacitor only as otherwise it will go to the failed battery.
The capacitor can fail itself an often does over time which can then drain the battery.

Think of it like a modern car where you get a can of tyre sealant not a spare wheel. If your lucky after messing about it may get you home.

Click to expand...

Diablouph said:

I was thinking of the "no battery ignition" where there is no battery at all. In the Evan Fell wiring diagram, there is no capacitor.

Click to expand...

The capacitor not only helps to start a bike with a dead battery, but to keep it running with a shot (or non-existent) battery, carrying enough juice to fire the coils between alternator output pulses.
Picture the action of the alternator; the only time it's putting out its max is when a magnet is sweeping past an edge of one of the poles. Directly in-line with, or in-between pole pieces, the output goes to zero. Now, if the AAU happens to shift the points timing to coincide with one of the regular low points of the alternator's output, you'll get a mis-fire. The capacitor stores enough to "float" the system during the low points, thus firing the plugs.
On where to install it, pretty much anywhere on the line between the regulator and ignition switch will do, although I'd probably put it between the fuse and ignition switch. That way, if the cap internally shorts, the fuse will protect your regulator. http://cycles.evanfell.com/wp-content/u ... n_Fell.png
As far as lights and such are concerned, they really don't care what's fed them, so the capacitor only matters to the ignition system.

Not sure most of the posts I skimmed through are actually tips, but here's mine, culled from 30 yers of running Italian bikes. YMMV on a Norton.
If making a loom from scratch and you have an old one, get yourself a large bit of ply or similar. Lay out your old loom and tie/fix the thing down, laid out like it is on the bike. You can then over lay you new wires as required and leave out redundant stuff and add in your latest hopeful idea. Leave a foot or so excess at the end of each wire - you know it makes sense - better a foot too long than an inch too short.
Wire - I always use factory colours, you always know what's what and so does the next guy, or can look it up. Or the guy in a foreign country you can't communicate with verbally.
There is some improved wire around now with better but thinner insulation, at least over here available in shortish lengths, it has good reports so far.
A turn of tape just to keep everything in place, at this stage I usually offer the loom up. tweeking the lay of the cables and such.
I then go back and use my prefered sheath, PTFE shrink stuff. Small splits from main loom, say a couple of wires out to a horn, I would sheath them first then install the larger stuff over the main cable run, without leaving exposed cables. I don't heat the PTFE, just leave it as a nice slidey surface to prevent chaffing. PVC is I think too thick and goes stiff pretty quickly. The glass fiber woven sheathing looks like it could be good.
Once the sheathing is in place you can start fixing the various connectors. Fortunately Guzzi's are mostly lucar/spades. There are also a few connector blocks. I think the factory wiring is a bit more involved than it needs to be.
I read someone doesn't like joining wires with anything, my thought are more "what if" - like if you have to remove something out on the road on tour, say after an accident or a breakdown to get you going. You may end up in an unrepairable situation. Each to their own I suppose.
Sticky PVC tape, which lurks in everyones toolbox, should not be used as a covering for looms. When I was an apprentice, braided looms went out and loom tape came in. That is un sticky tape. It takes awhile to get the hang of tensioning it right to stop it unravelling or being too tight and overlapping enough (about half way), but learnable. The reasons for not using the sticky stuff are lost in the mire of severed synapses, but the unsticky stuff allows the loom to be easily bent and fitted into the correct place.
Installing connectors, use a decent pair of crimp pliers. Rather than any moulded pre made insulation for connectors, I use PTFE again, this time shrinking it once the connection is made, but make it nice and long to cover the whole caboodle.
Oh and I wouldn't use the connectors with the bit of plastic where the crimp goes, they are generally rubbish. There are excellent ones about.
Connectors make maintenance easy, so in my case it gets done, rather than put off. As someone else mentioned, clean the surfaces, and that detoxit stuff is good. I then pack the whole connector with dilectric silicone grease, mine came from a plasma cutter, and has proved its worth over years of service.
Anyway that's what works for me.
Hope there is something of use.